Easter: Message of Jesus?

February 24th, 2018 at 12:32:09 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: FrGamble
important and common forms of evidence.


Common because it's abundant, and without
real evidence to back it up, worthless. Don't
pretend this isn't known to you, it's all part of
your bag of tricks. Just keep citing testimonial
evidence and hope nobody catches on that
it's useless as real evidence and proves nothing.



Quote: FrGamble
Remember too we are not just talking about Christian witness we are talking about all who testify to God's existence. By the way, why is it that you hate on Christians so much?


You mean all those anecdotal and conflicting
stories about gods throughout the ages? Add
them all together and you have a hill of beans.
It's the stuff myths are made of. You really need
to snap out your befuddlement and read some
of Joseph Campbell's books. He was raised a
Catholic also, but he came to his senses.

I don't hate Xtions, I don't hate anybody. I think
they're confused and misinformed, and highly
entertaining since all their power has been taken
away and they can no longer have you killed
or imprisoned for disagreeing with them.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 24th, 2018 at 5:59:07 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Personal testimony is not worthless, but again let's just leave it as an agreement that it can be considered evidence for God's existence and move on to another.

Since you seem to like the unexplainable that has been scientifically studied then maybe the next piece of evidence we could discuss are miracles. I'm talking about the scientificly unexplainable healings and the rigioursly examined miracles like Our Lady of Guadalupe and the Shroud of Turin just to name a few of the hundreds of such phenomenon.

Also the fact that belief in God is universally present throughout human history in every culture is evidence that there is a God not that God is a myth. Remember Campbell speaks about myths revealing and carrying profound truths.

Finally, I'm just curious. When do you think it was that some Christians imprisoned people for heresy? It happened, I know, but I'm curious about when you think this happened. I can tell you that today, right this very moment there are Christians who are imprisoned and tortured because of their beliefs. There have been more Christian martyrs in recent years than anytime in history. If you don't like ideologies that use force and other means to make you believe then maybe you shouldn't look to the distant past but open your eyes and look around you today!
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 24th, 2018 at 10:39:08 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4177
Quote: beachbumbabs
Thank you for such a thoughtful answer.

You're right: I am heavily influenced by Christianity, but I do not consider myself a Christian in the modern sense. I revere Jesus, but question his divinity.


The leap of faith you make between these paragraphs is where you lose me, not that I stopped reading.

I have no cynicism about Jesus. I accept him and his teachings wholeheartedly. His are civil societal rules to live by.

I have a great deal of cynicism about his followers.

I look at the priests and leaders who have done the worst sinning in his name, killing, torturing, subjugating, and converting "infidels" and I am sickened.

I look at the vast horde of hypocrites who see him as a free pass to sin and trespass and hurt, as long as they show up to church on Sunday, and i am angered.

I look at the multitudes of sheep who blindly cede the greatest gifts God has given Man, their minds and souls, to any shyster who claims he speaks for the Lord, and I despair.

"Christianity" surrounds me every day in the USA, from the athletes who claim Jesus took their side in victory, to pious adulterers and thieves, to exclusionary snobs who condemn all outside their narrow faith to hell, to money-grubbing, judgmental businessmen who claim divine right to their particular brand of bigotry, to .... Oh, Jesus save us from the manipulations of your followers while trampling your good Name.

And then I see, while typing this rant, the Toyota commercial of the girl-child born without feet who won a paralympic gold medal by "getting up again" on prosthetic limbs a million times first. And finally skied down that mountain faster than anyone else. Certainly faster higher stronger than me, with two perfectly good feet.

That is faith. That is belief. And it is supported by science that built the legs that God forgot. But it is first in the child to believe and persevere. Her faith may well be Christian; I don't know.

But God helps those who help themselves, they say.
So I help myself every day, and perhaps God walks with me, perhaps I am persevering on my own. I don't know which. But I do not seek false comfort.


My favorite post of all time. TY BBB.
February 24th, 2018 at 10:44:24 AM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Mar 25, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 732
Quote: Evenbob
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/ian-stevensone28099s-case-for-the-afterlife-are-we-e28098skepticse28099-really-just-cynics/


Fascinating. All Tucker's et al's studies to is to find the bull-hooey and remain with unexplained coincidences with absolutely no scientific mechanism to back it up. Kind of like religion: unexplained coincidences that lead to a conclusion that can't be proven true.
February 24th, 2018 at 11:03:17 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: boymimbo
Fascinating. All Tucker's et al's studies to is to find the bull-hooey and remain with unexplained coincidences with absolutely no scientific mechanism to back it up. Kind of like religion: unexplained coincidences that lead to a conclusion that can't be proven true.


Boo-yah.

There haven't been many interested in taking it up, either, to repeat, validate, and verify the results through another study.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 24th, 2018 at 11:21:55 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: boymimbo
unexplained coincidences .


LOL! Whatever, it's like arguing with
a flat earth person, a complete waste
of time. You still understand nothing
about this subject.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 24th, 2018 at 1:08:56 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Bob, why do you get so mad when people question your beliefs? Listen, learn, and respond calmly. These type of answers don't do any good, don't advance the conversation, and make you look very insecure about your beliefs.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 24th, 2018 at 1:14:17 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: boymimbo
Kind of like religion: unexplained coincidences that lead to a conclusion that can't be proven true.


Very "kind of like".

Religion has unexplained coincidences, but also: historical fact, revelation, personal experience, testimony, coherent theology and philosophy, scientific evidence, art, beauty, music, creation itself, loving service, and more to support belief.

But it all still comes down to faith, just not a blind faith or a faith just based on unexplained coincidences.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 24th, 2018 at 3:04:38 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: FrGamble
Bob, why do you get so mad when people question your beliefs?


It's not a 'belief'. It's the methodology
that they know nothing about and
completely dismiss. If they knew the
methodology well and then dismissed
it, that I could accept. They have to dismiss
it because even one person who died
and was born into another body totally
cancels out the reward/punishment
religions of Xtionity/Mormonism/Islam.

How did this person miss being judged
by their awful god? So all past lives
research has to be bogus to them, no
matter how sound the methodology.
God myths die hard in the face of cold hard
facts.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 24th, 2018 at 3:07:00 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: FrGamble
Religion has unexplained coincidences


Really? Name one, I can't think of
any, enlighten me. Religion is 99%
made up stories passed down to
later generations, and then taken
as truth because there's no way
to verify any of it.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.