Circumnavigation of Africa
May 8th, 2017 at 6:41:34 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
While he often went closer to the source than most, he also reported assertions rather uncritically in his works. For example, he's told by a guide that the writing in the pyramids are a record of how much produce was paid tot he workers who built them. On the other hand, modern experiments in Egyptian-style embalming techniques (mummification), were rather successful due to Herodotus' descriptions of the process. In particular the tools used to cut open the body in preparation. And much of his writings are used as secondary sources to this day.
North? I'm certain they so claimed to Herodotus. Whether it was true is another question. Phoenicians navigated far and wide through the Mediterranean sea, no question. They planted colonies as far as Spain. Some scholars believe they may have traded all the way north, by sea, to Britain and Germany, but the evidence is scant and circumstantial (mostly linguistic). But keep in mind they were traders, not explorers. So why would they go around Africa? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 8th, 2017 at 9:59:29 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Storms, unknown riches, a good crop year could send them further afield looking for buyers, conversations with their customers, other goods spotted in foreign lands? |
May 8th, 2017 at 10:31:39 AM permalink | |
Ayecarumba Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 89 Posts: 1744 |
Good Hope? |
May 8th, 2017 at 10:58:33 AM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Cádiz was founded in around 1104 BC by Phoenicians from Tyre,and is sometimes counted as the most ancient city still standing in Western Europe. The expeditions of Himilco around Spain and France and of Hanno around Western Africa began here. I was thinking it might be a good counterexample, as there was no one to trade with, but it seems Cadiz traded with Tartessos, a city-state whose exact location remains unknown but is thought to have been somewhere near the mouth of the Guadalquivir River. It is estimated that in 500 BCE the population of Africa was 14 million, Europe was 16 million and Asia was 66 million. But there is little evidence that Europeans thought of any of these people as trading partners that far back in history. Egypt established the spice trade with India in the 2nd century AD. Herodotus does tell a story set in 515 BC of the Greek explorer Scylax who went through Kabul and into Pakistan and sailed down the Indus river and the via a sea route across the Indian Ocean to Egypt. That would have been about 3500 miles round trip from Darius's capital city so it would have taken several years. |
May 8th, 2017 at 11:36:08 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
You know there's a city named after Carthage in Spain and one in South America.
Well, it varies. Romans traded with anyone, especially within their empire. African pottery, from North Africa, was very popular and can be found in Britain. North Africa, and Egypt in particular, was Rome's, and then Byzantium's, main source of grain for centuries. That's why losing much of North Africa to the Vandals was such a blow. Romans also bought pepper and silk from Persian middlemen, and were aware of a great empire well to the east. Chinese traders were aware of a great empire well to the west. Neither ever met the other. There are anecdotes of Chinese traders looking to get to Rome, being told by Persian middlemen that it was very far away. Alexander reached as far as India. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 8th, 2017 at 2:38:27 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Technically all of these people are after 600 BCE, and Rome was still pretty small at that time.
My brother mentioned another critical fact. The Phoenicians would have sailed around Africa clockwise instead of counterclockwise like the Portuguese. So huge hazards to navigation like Cape Bojador which sank every ship for a hundred years before 1434 would not have been a problem in a clockwise circumnavigation. |
May 9th, 2017 at 2:36:26 AM permalink | |
odiousgambit Member since: Oct 28, 2012 Threads: 154 Posts: 5108 |
A one-way trip might have worked fine, but how do you get back? I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me] |
May 9th, 2017 at 5:41:39 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Why is that? Winds, seas, rocky shores would be the same wouldn't they? |
May 9th, 2017 at 8:47:12 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I don't get it. Phoenicia was in today's Lebanon, and Carthage, the other big Phoenician city state, was in today's Tunis. Both in the Mediterranean shores, without ready access to the Red Sea. A Phoenician who wanted to go around Africa would sail west past the Strait of Gibraltar, then follow the coast which then turns south. Assuming they wanted to set sail from the Red Sea, then out intrepid navigator would have to make an overland trip through the desert to Aqaba or Elat or the Sinai or Egypt, and build their ships there. Lebanon was in ancient time the source of fine cedar wood. Just sayin'. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 9th, 2017 at 8:53:47 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Why couldn't they use the Suez Canal? Just kidding folks. However, do remember that North Africa and the Levant at that time were lush, verdant places and there were undoubtedly streams and rivers. Roadways probably existed due to constant caravan use. I don't think a trek to the Red Sea would have been an insurmountable undertaking. Certainly in comparison to later trade routes it would have been no obstacle at all. |