Will God Survive Science

Quote: FrGamble

Isn't change itself always resisted for various reasons, many of which are not logical or sound? It is not as if any scientist at the time really understood lightning or had a much better answer to why it happened than anyone else. That together with the idea that a lightning rod would cause lightning to be more likely to hit your steeple but just control or ground the charge would I think be a little scary for some folks.

You are pointing out that other groups have various reasons for resisting change, using that to justify the reasons for your organization to resist change.

Yes, there are various reasons for resisting change, but the reasons don't all have equal levels of importance or significance.

So let me spell some out. People might be afraid of change due to ignorance or fear. They may simply disbelieve that some new way of doing things is possible, or safe. They may be stubborn about always having done something in a certain way.

Now let me point out one the reasons that the church has been resistant to change:
It goes against their dogma. When you go against dogma, the absolute and the immutable, you damage the immutability of other principles within the dogma.
It breaks infallibility, and absolute authority. It breaks faith.

It is wrong to equate the various reasons for resistance to change.

Quote: FrGamble

It is not as if any scientist at the time really understood lightning or had a much better answer to why it happened than anyone else.

Ben Franklin did. He experimented and proved lightning is an electrical discharge. He so understood what it was, that he came up with the idea of of placing a conducting rod on the highest point of a building, which itself was connected to a grounded conductor, which would absorb the electromagnetic energy and keep the building safe.

Quote:

That together with the idea that a lightning rod would cause lightning to be more likely to hit your steeple but just control or ground the charge would I think be a little scary for some folks.

A lightning rod doesn't make a hit more likely. It makes a hit far less damaging. Churches were hit disproportionately because they tended to be the tallest buildings as well. Skyscrapers like the Empire State get struck by lightning more than smaller buildings nearby for the same reason. Rocket launch towers are protected by lightning rods for the same reason.

Do you think anyone could operate a space program out of Florida without lightning rods?

This is the Church:

Quote: Dalex64

You are pointing out that other groups have various reasons for resisting change, using that to justify the reasons for your organization to resist change.

Yes, there are various reasons for resisting change, but the reasons don't all have equal levels of importance or significance.

So let me spell some out. People might be afraid of change due to ignorance or fear. They may simply disbelieve that some new way of doing things is possible, or safe. They may be stubborn about always having done something in a certain way.

Now let me point out one the reasons that the church has been resistant to change:
It goes against their dogma. When you go against dogma, the absolute and the immutable, you damage the immutability of other principles within the dogma.
It breaks infallibility, and absolute authority. It breaks faith.

It is wrong to equate the various reasons for resistance to change.

I can tell you with certainty that it was never a dogma of the Church or an infallible teaching from the Holy See that demons or an angry God caused lightning to strike. I'm not saying that it wasn't a belief held by many people, but it is actually a teaching that Jesus Himself speaks directly against in the Gospels (Luke 13:4). So since it didn't go against their dogma, even though I have no doubt at that time as even right now, people said it did - maybe it was one of the more likely reasons you mentioned such as fear of change due to ignorance or being stubborn, etc. It might manifested itself historically as against dogma but obviously it was not, we all have lightning rods on our Churches, Jesus is still God, and the Pope is still infallible.

Quote: Evenbob

This is the Church:

That looks like me at the unpleasant truth booth and sadly everyone is walking past. The Church, unlike Evenbob, can't change the truth just to say whatever he likes. We have to actually deal with history - the ugly, very ugly parts of our history and the beautiful, glorious even parts of our history that are still going on today! Bob just believes and says whatever he likes and that makes him comfortable.

Quote: FrGamble

The Church, unlike Evenbob, can't change the truth .

Why is it constantly rewriting history
in it's favor, then.

Simple answer, it's not.

Quote: FrGamble

Simple answer, it's not.

The articles are too numerous to post.

Pope Rewrites Catholic History
A papal interview proves the Catholic Church is unrepentant of its past mistakes. The pope’s answers reveal a disturbing truth about the modern Vatican. Several times in the interview the pope was confronted with areas where his church had made mistakes in the past. But he never acknowledged them. He never apologized. In each instance, he focused the blame on someone else.

https://www.thetrumpet.com/11853-pope-rewrites-catholic-history

Rewriting History Doesn't Make it True. Vatican II: Benedict rewrites history

http://enlightenedcatholicism-colkoch.blogspot.com/2010/05/rewriting-history-doesnt-make-it-true.htm

I could post dozens more but you're
a denial denizen, you would just pooh
pooh it all.

Quote: FrGamble

I can tell you with certainty that it was never a dogma of the Church or an infallible teaching from the Holy See that demons or an angry God caused lightning to strike... and the Pope is still infallible.

Even the bad popes.

It doesn't have to be one of the "infallible" statements to be against the beliefs of the church and therefore looks bad when overturned by science, or when seen opposing science because of their beliefs.

Neither does it have to be one of the things Jesus preached about. We all know the Catholic Church promotes beliefs that we're never preached by Jesus or even appeared in the Bible.

See what you did there this time? Moving the goalposts.

The way you pivot, twist, and turn, and attempt to minimize and deny the things your church has done is truly amazing.

Simple statement of fact: on multiple occasions your church or members of the church acting in a way sanctioned and taught by the church, has denied science which was against their beliefs are the time. So don't give me the lame argument that there are lightning rods now so I must not be right.

Just about each time you point out how much your church had advanced science, and put on the blinders for the times that they didn't.

Quote: Dalex64

See what you did there this time? Moving the goalposts. The way you pivot, twist, and turn, and attempt to minimize and deny the things your church has done is truly amazing.
.

Yes, and that's the reason I'm still in this
discussion 3 years later. FrG fascinates
me, imagine a whole church full of
people like this 500 years ago. Smart,
educated, when the rest of the population
was woefully ignorant and uneducated.
Men who could twist something on a dime,
and twist it with such expertise you never
even knew what hit you.