Alternate history

May 16th, 2019 at 4:52:43 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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As we all know Christopher Colombus made the voyage approximated by xra-lpa-zsa for the Spanish monarchs. Eight years later Cabral made the voyage appoximated by LIS-SID-BPS for the Portuguese Monarchs.

Cabral was trying to catch the trade winds to circumnavigate Africa which explains why he was so far West. He was not looking for a shortcut to Asia, nor was he looking for a "New World".

But once the route was established it was easier than the Spanish route mostly because Cape Verde islands (SID is airport) was closer to the midpoint than the Canary Islands (LPA airport). You were less likely to run out of supplies or to have a problem with disease.

The Azores (TER airport) were the most Western islands occupied by Europeans (the Portuguese), but th Westerly trade winds were so strong that it didn't help much as a sailing stop.

There are a dozen reasons Colombus's voyage might have failed. Hypothetically suppose he didn't get the funding or he died enroute, or mutineers had turned the ship around. Cabral would probably still have discovered Brazil eight years later, because he made no decisions based on the Colombus voyage.

Just like that we might have had a Latin America that was predominantly Portuguese instead of predominantly Spanish. Would such a world be better pr worse.

Brazil was the last country in the Western world to abolish slavery. By the time it was abolished after years of campaigning by Emperor Pedro II, in 1888, an estimated four million slaves had been imported from Africa to Brazil, 40% of the total number of slaves brought to the Americas. While Brazil had its fair share of wars. I think overall they were less bloody than those involving the Spanish states. Furthermore a New world that was predominantly Portugues might not have extended it's borders or had as many settlers in North America.There may have been less conflict with the USA and possibly less immigration.
May 16th, 2019 at 5:27:50 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin


Just like that we might have had a Latin America that was predominantly Portuguese instead of predominantly Spanish. Would such a world be better pr worse.

Brazil was the last country in the Western world to abolish slavery. By the time it was abolished after years of campaigning by Emperor Pedro II, in 1888, an estimated four million slaves had been imported from Africa to Brazil, 40% of the total number of slaves brought to the Americas. While Brazil had its fair share of wars. I think overall they were less bloody than those involving the Spanish states. Furthermore a New world that was predominantly Portugues might not have extended it's borders or had as many settlers in North America.There may have been less conflict with the USA and possibly less immigration.


I think it depends on if they could have held it. Did they have the population to send to colonize? IMHO, once news of the New World leaked out it would have been near the same free-for-all to colonize. Maybe Spain would have been locked out sooner.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
May 16th, 2019 at 5:56:59 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
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The spice trade
Free land
Free labor
,,,,,,It was too attractive to ignore. Spain and Portugal were each Catholic countries, the Pope would not have allowed long wars.

The USA tried to settle freed slaves in Brazil.
May 16th, 2019 at 10:30:15 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 911
Posts: 10783
Quote: AZDuffman
IMHO, once news of the New World leaked out it would have been near the same free-for-all to colonize.


There never really was much of a free-for-all. Once it was clear the cities of gold did not exist, life in the New World did not hold huge attractions. It took Britain more than a century to establish a permanent colony. It wasn't until 1900 that North and South America caught up to the population of Europe in 1500.


But you are correct that Portugal may not have had the population. Spain only had an eight-year head start, and they didn't have that many colonists by 1500. In any event, the kings of Spain ruled Portugal for 60 years starting in 1580.

Estimated populations of political groups in 1500
125,000,000 Ming Empire
20,000,000-55,000,000 Delhi Sultanate
16,250,000 Domains of the French Crown
10,000,000-16,000,000 Bengal Sultanate
16,000,000 Holy Roman Empire (approximate stand in for Germany and BENELUX)
12,000,000 Inca Empire
11,000,000 Ottoman Empire
8,550,000 Spanish Empire
8,000,000 Ashikaga shogunate
7,500,000 Polish–Lithuanian Union
6,000,000 Aztec Empire
4,867,000 Mamluk Sultanate
4,000,000 Kingdom of Hungary and Kingdom of Croatia
3,000,000 Portuguese Empire -----------------------------------------------------------------
2,750,000 English Crown
2,000,000 Papal States
2,000,000 Kingdom of Naples
1,690,000 Kalmar Union
1,500,000 Republic of Venice
1,224,000 Cambodia
750,000 Republic of Florence
500,000 Kingdom of Scotland
135,000 Malacca Sultanate