Pain & Death

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December 12th, 2019 at 7:54:48 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 24
Posts: 5619
Quote: Gandler
Because one is active defense, one is just killing for the sake of retribution (again with no net benifit to society or crime levels).

I do not support Capitol punishment.
You can't see terminating murderers protects the innocent from being the next target?
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
December 13th, 2019 at 3:40:54 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 14363
Quote: Gandler
Of course I would have a problem with crucifiction.... Though a quick Google search says that they currently use hanging which is far more humane. Obviously I am against any method.

I am not sure about Japan, but in America, the death penalty has zero relevance as a deterrent to violent crime and gun violence (scaling states that have it versus not having it), and comparing American states is the best example. (I am sure somebody is going to say "Its not fair to compare State X and State Y") ....


Long prison terms are not a deterrent in most cases, either. Prison is the last thing that deters a real criminal. It is part of the job, an occupational risk. After doing a stint in prison their status with their peers rises in fact.

It is about punishment for the crime.
The President is a fink.
December 13th, 2019 at 4:11:46 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 17
Posts: 2247
Quote: petroglyph
You can't see terminating murderers protects the innocent from being the next target?


Lifetime confinement would achieve the same result. Many people end up on Death Row most of their life anyway with all of the appeals and drawn out processes.....
December 13th, 2019 at 4:14:13 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 17
Posts: 2247
Quote: AZDuffman
Long prison terms are not a deterrent in most cases, either. Prison is the last thing that deters a real criminal. It is part of the job, an occupational risk. After doing a stint in prison their status with their peers rises in fact.

It is about punishment for the crime.


I don't disagree with that. But, when we are talking about people on death row, they would be in prison for life in almost every case. There is no chance they would be getting back on the street.

For lesser crimes, I think prisons need to focus more on reform and treatment. I agree that prison culture right now fosters criminal mentality and gang involvement.
December 13th, 2019 at 5:13:38 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 14363
Quote: Gandler
I don't disagree with that. But, when we are talking about people on death row, they would be in prison for life in almost every case. There is no chance they would be getting back on the street.


Which is why I say it is about punishment. And I do think there are some criminals who the death penalty does scare. Some not, if I were up for murder I would demand the death penalty as part of a guilty plea, though I know you cannot do that. Plenty fight the death penalty to the bitter end. McVeigh is one of the few who refused all appeals and said "get it over with." So something is there.

Quote:
For lesser crimes, I think prisons need to focus more on reform and treatment. I agree that prison culture right now fosters criminal mentality and gang involvement.


The problem today is drug crimes. Treatment does not seem to work. What seems to work is take the criminals off the streets until they hit their early to mid-30s. Same as at that age you do not want to be in a loud bar with "22 year old kids" it has been found by age 30 people do not want to go out and do street crimes.

I am not talking gangsters. A gangster is OG for life and prison is just an occupational hazard. Some see it as a sabbatical, get away from the daily grind and the nagging wife. But a street punk sooner or later realizes this is no way to live. People calm down around age 30. But that is another thread.

I said before I am too old and tired to care about the drug war anymore. It has made the cops a 5th military branch, it has cost too much and destroyed too much. Legalize it so people can be assured of a clean supply that will not kill them. Then the chips fall where they may.
The President is a fink.
December 13th, 2019 at 8:39:25 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 34
Posts: 2529
Quote: Gandler
Lifetime confinement would achieve the same result. Many people end up on Death Row most of their life anyway with all of the appeals and drawn out processes.....


That is the problem with our implementation of the death penalty, it takes too long. I think if the criminals were executed withing 48 hours of being apprehended it would be a much better deterrent.

I think heinous crime committers should be put to death, but I am against the death sentence as we implement it. I just don't trust our legal system.
We are all going to die, why procrastinate?
December 13th, 2019 at 8:57:15 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 53
Posts: 7680
Quote: DRich
That is the problem with our implementation of the death penalty, it takes too long. I think if the criminals were executed withing 48 hours of being apprehended it would be a much better deterrent.

I think heinous crime committers should be put to death, but I am against the death sentence as we implement it. I just don't trust our legal system.

My view, can convict with no reasonable doubt
To execute, no doubt at all
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
December 13th, 2019 at 9:14:21 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 11
Posts: 2463
Quote: terapined
My view, can convict with no reasonable doubt
To execute, no doubt at all


Hey we finally found something we can agree on again TP. I don't have a moral problem with the state killing someone but innocent people do get convicted of murder. I feel that to have the horror of the state executing an innocent man is not worth the questionable benefit of executing all the guilty ones.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
December 13th, 2019 at 2:55:13 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 17
Posts: 2247
Quote: DRich
That is the problem with our implementation of the death penalty, it takes too long. I think if the criminals were executed withing 48 hours of being apprehended it would be a much better deterrent.

I think heinous crime committers should be put to death, but I am against the death sentence as we implement it. I just don't trust our legal system.


How can any kind of fair trial take place in 48 hours?

Once somebody is in confiment they are no longer an active threat.
December 14th, 2019 at 8:21:14 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 34
Posts: 2529
Quote: Gandler
How can any kind of fair trial take place in 48 hours?

Once somebody is in confiment they are no longer an active threat.


I don't think it can based on our legal system.

If you believe there is no violence in prison you are clearly mistaken.
We are all going to die, why procrastinate?
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