GM to out-Tesla Tesla

Quote: GM

Introducing the revolutionary Ultium Platform. Engineered for range, power and flexibility to charge fast, run long and fit every type of vehicle. An innovation that’s powering General Motors’ plan to offer 30 new EVs globally by 2025. Which means the day will soon come when everybody can drive an EV. Welcome to Generation E. Join us and together we’ll emit optimism.

30 new EVs globally by 2025. GM expects to sell 3 million BEVs by 2030. Toyota expects to sell 2 million BEVs by 2030.



US Sales for first 9 months of 2021
1,857,883 Toyota-Lexus
1,777,483 General Motors
1,397,504 Ford-Lincoln
1,365,881 Stellantis
1,179,424 Honda-Acura
1,175,480 Hyundai-Kia-Genesis
782,656 Nissan- Infiniti

it doesn't look like you would want to be somewhere you might 'scrape bottom'

Quote: odiousgambit

it doesn't look like you would want to be somewhere you might 'scrape bottom'

The EV is not holding up very well in the compact/subcompact category of passenger cars/hatchbacks. While not a dominant portion of vehicle sales in the USA, with about a million sales so far in the first 9 months of 2021, it is still an emotional category. The Civic is the best seling vehicle in California. Nearly a hundred million people live in rental apartments and many of them buy a vehicle just to transport a few people and some cargo and don't ride around in SUVs or pickup trucks. They don't have a place to charge every night.

When you talk about "scraping bottom" it reminds you that the 667 pounds of battery in a Nissan LEAF (149 miles range) is a big weight to carry around for a small vehicle, especially when compared to 80 lbs of gasoline in a full tank in a Nissan Sentra (409 mile range) . A Nissan Versa has a curb weight of 2,599 to 2,729 lbs. and a Nissan Sentra has a curb weight of 3,036 to 3,084 lbs.. A Nissan LEAF has a curb weight of 3,516 to 3,934 lbs.

Only the Mini Cooper and the Nissan LEAF are pure electric vehicles in the compact/subcompact car. Nissan is tired of fairly dismal sales of the LEAF, while everyone else makes money. The are introducing the electric crossover, the ARIYA to rival Tesla's Model Y. It is not clear if and when they will discontinue the LEAF. Mini is going all electric as their primary customers are wealthy people who want a cute city car as their secondary or teriary vehicle.

Sales first 9 months of 2021 compact and subcompact non luxury models
217,727 Toyota Corolla
200,941 Honda Civic
110,821 Nissan Sentra
75,103 Hyundai Elantra
65,647 Volkswagen Jetta
62,911 Kia Forte
51,038 Toyota PRIUS
50,569 Nissan Versa
32,155 Subaru Impreza
25,169 Mazda 3
23,895 Kia Rio
17,858 Volkswagen Golf
14,090 Hyundai Accent
10,074 Nissan LEAF
8,695 Honda Fit
6,445 Mini USA
4,867 Mitsubushi Mirage
1,563 Chevrolet Sonic
979,568

Quote: Pacomartin

The EV is not holding up very well in the compact/subcompact category of passenger cars/hatchbacks. While not a dominant portion of vehicle sales in the USA, with about a million sales so far in the first 9 months of 2021, it is still an emotional category. The Civic is the best seling vehicle in California. Nearly a hundred million people live in rental apartments and many of them buy a vehicle just to transport a few people and some cargo and don't ride around in SUVs or pickup trucks. They don't have a place to charge every night.

So they are noticing what I have been telling people is going to be a huge problem for 10 years now?

That is the thing with EVs. Those pushing them tend to be well off with that 2 car garage they actually use. They do not grasp how the lower half lives. More of those MBAs who think people actually want what the market research says they want.

Quote: AZDuffman

They do not grasp how the lower half lives.

Or the half that doesn't think in absolutes.

Pennsylvania is eco minded. We dropped from 30% to 10% coal in the last five years, but we increased from 28% to 52% in natural gas. We don't mind switching to the less egregious fossil fuel. But PA is a distant third to Wyoming and West Virginia in mining tons of coal. Now that there is a shortage of natural gas this year, we will go back to coal as we still have the plants.

Pennsylvania Electricity Generation
Coal Natural Gas Nuclear Other
10.19% 52.47% 33.25% 4.08% - 2020
30.12% 27.71% 37.52% 4.64% - 2015

So I think it is wonderful that the Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, Hummer, giant SUV people are all switching to EVs. Toyota just got rid of the 5.7 liter V-8 in the Tundra pickup truck and is now offering a hybrid choice at 3.5 liters. They plan to do the same with the 4Runner and the Tacoma pickup as well.

I just can't imagine changing the entire fleet to EVs. The battery in a LEAF weighs over 600 lbs. A Mitsubushi Mirage weighs 2000 lbs overall, which is why they can sell it with a 1.2 liter 78 hp engine.

Quote: Pacomartin

Or the half that doesn't think in absolutes.

Pennsylvania is eco minded. We dropped from 30% to 10% coal in the last five years, but we increased from 28% to 52% in natural gas. We don't mind switching to the less egregious fossil fuel. But PA is a distant third to Wyoming and West Virginia in mining tons of coal. Now that there is a shortage of natural gas this year, we will go back to coal as we still have the plants.

Pennsylvania Electricity Generation
Coal Natural Gas Nuclear Other
10.19% 52.47% 33.25% 4.08% - 2020
30.12% 27.71% 37.52% 4.64% - 2015

So I think it is wonderful that the Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, Hummer, giant SUV people are all switching to EVs. Toyota just got rid of the 5.7 liter V-8 in the Tundra pickup truck and is now offering a hybrid choice at 3.5 liters. They plan to do the same with the 4Runner and the Tacoma pickup as well.

I just can't imagine changing the entire fleet to EVs. The battery in a LEAF weighs over 600 lbs. A Mitsubushi Mirage weighs 2000 lbs overall, which is why they can sell it with a 1.2 liter 78 hp engine.

It is the "bucket of common sense" thing.

We are all born with a bucket of common sense. The further you go in college the more college knowledge pours into the bucket and overflows out the common sense. Eventually when you get a Masters or higher very little common sense remains.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is the "bucket of common sense" thing.

We are all born with a bucket of common sense. The further you go in college the more college knowledge pours into the bucket and overflows out the common sense. Eventually when you get a Masters or higher very little common sense remains.

I like to think I have my common sense first, and my education lets me ADD in to it. Common sense does not go out the window because I went to medical school. That’s just…. COMMON SENSE!

Quote: SOOPOO

I like to think I have my common sense first, and my education lets me ADD in to it. Common sense does not go out the window because I went to medical school. That’s just…. COMMON SENSE!

Look at how many "educated" people fall for anything someone says as long as it is a "peer reviewed paper." Or "the scientists" said it was so. Look at how colleges indoctrinate students, a kid goes to a semester or two and comes back thinking the world was upside down to what they knew before.

How many educated people thought there was no problem with interests only and neg am mortgages in the 2000s when a person with common sense could see what a bad idea it was. Or "educated" people buying into that there are some ultimate number of genders? Or the people who think UBI is possible because some math guy put out a fancy formula?

Let us not forget the educated people that think $3.5 billion in social spending will magically pay for itself.

Sorry, but I have seen the correlation. Educated people may have a higher IQ and may have the degrees, but they lose their common sense and trust things that do not make sense.

Quote: AZDuffman

Let us not forget the educated people that think $3.5 billion in social spending will magically pay for itself.

This is got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in politics that a multi-trillion dollar bill will cost nothing because it's being paid for in taxes according to Beijing Joe. Well duh, when you raise taxes on corporations or on anything they pass that on to us in higher prices so we end up paying for it. Just how stupid do the Libby's think we are. When I owned the bar and a wholesaler raised his prices because the state was taking more taxes for booze I had to raise my prices to the customers. That's how it works, that's how it has always worked. Money always has to come from somewhere. Even when the government prints more money what that does is reduces the value of the money we already have. Money is never free.

Quote: Evenbob

This is got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in politics that a multi-trillion dollar bill will cost nothing because it's being paid for in taxes according to Beijing Joe. Well duh, when you raise taxes on corporations or on anything they pass that on to us in higher prices so we end up paying for it. Just how stupid do the Libby's think we are. When I owned the bar and a wholesaler raised his prices because the state was taking more taxes for booze I had to raise my prices to the customers. That's how it works, that's how it has always worked. Money always has to come from somewhere. Even when the government prints more money what that does is reduces the value of the money we already have. Money is never free.

You have to understand that these lifetime pols probably do not know how a job is created or a business is run. When Vince McMahon's wife was running for Senate her opponent was asked how a job is created and he used the word "government" in his answer 4 or 5 times.

Really, I do not think they understand how a business works.