Presidential Historians Survey

I saw the news item last month, but just remembered it.

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

This does not surprise me.

I have been long saying that Trump will consistently rank in the bottom three-five when observed purely objectively (on what he promised versus what he accomplished, and the state of the Nation under his leadership).

This scoring breakdown is actually more generous than many.

Trump managed to beat a handful of Presidents that were (heavily) pro-slavery and pro-succession, so I guess he has that going for him!

Quote: rxwine

I saw the news item last month, but just remembered it.

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Interesting, Thank you.

Administrative Skills :44/44
Moral Authority: 44/44

It is interesting to see the perfectly reasonable traits that you guys look for in your leader.
You got traits not in the list, and probably are more important to some of you.

Hates brown people.
Misogynist.
Won't do anything about guns.
Gets away with stuff.
Sticks it to those liberals.
Sticks it to those namby pamby greenies.

Quote: Gandler

This does not surprise me.

I have been long saying that Trump will consistently rank in the bottom three-five when observed purely objectively (on what he promised versus what he accomplished, and the state of the Nation under his leadership).

What objectives? Peace? Prosperity? Rapid response to the china virus?

He got Arab nations to recognize and work with Israel. I guess you did not read that in the news as you just skipped to the sports section?

He is only ranked low because liberals are doing the rankings.

Quote: AZDuffman

What objectives? Peace? Prosperity? Rapid response to the china virus?

He got Arab nations to recognize and work with Israel. I guess you did not read that in the news as you just skipped to the sports section?

He is only ranked low because liberals are doing the rankings.

He only ranked low, because he ranked low in their measures. I am sure that it must be some left-wing conspiracy to rank Reagan and Eisenhower above Obama, or make a Republican the top of the list....

Trump is just not a good President, and he will never be a good President by any objective measure. This is not a liberal or conservative thing (I am more moderate than many on the left, I even occasionally vote for Republicans, especially if they lean into neoconservatism). Trump was just bad, I don't know how he still has a dedicated fan base.

Trump did a good thing with Israel (that I have posted about before, so I am not sure why you are acting like I never acknowledged it), he also did a good thing with Space Force, and increasing the research budget of the military. However, his decision to pull out of Afghanistan counteracted all of these measures. As did his pulling back the extended nuclear deterrent umbrella (essentially that we would automatically use nuclear weapons if any NATO country was attacked with nukes).

He inherited and excellent economy (unlike Obama, who probably inherited the worst economy in modern history). And, he disbanded the Pandemic task Force in 2018, and did not appoint a new CDC epidemiologist in the China posting when they resigned. The virus was bad because of actions that he directly made, and initially he did not take the virus seriously.

Everything Trump does ends in disaster, there was no reason to expect that his Presidency would be any different.

Quote: Gandler

He only ranked low, because he ranked low in their measures. I am sure that it must be some left-wing conspiracy to rank Reagan and Eisenhower above Obama, or make a Republican the top of the list....

Trump is just not a good President, and he will never be a good President by any objective measure. This is not a liberal or conservative thing (I am more moderate than many on the left, I even occasionally vote for Republicans, especially if they lean into neoconservatism). Trump was just bad, I don't know how he still has a dedicated fan base.


Trump did a good thing with Israel (that I have posted about before, so I am not sure why you are acting like I never acknowledged it), he also did a good thing with Space Force, and increasing the research budget of the military. However, his decision to pull out of Afghanistan counteracted all of these measures. As did his pulling back the extended nuclear deterrent umbrella (essentially that we would automatically use nuclear weapons if any NATO country was attacked with nukes).

His list of accomplishments is long. The thing he has as "bad" is that liberals cannot stand him. You mention it here. Pulling out of Afghanistan should have happened 10 years sooner.

Quote:

He inherited and excellent economy (unlike Obama, who probably inherited the worst economy in modern history). And, he disbanded the Pandemic task Force in 2018, and did not appoint a new CDC epidemiologist in the China posting when they resigned. The virus was bad because of actions that he directly made, and initially he did not take the virus seriously.

Reagan inherited a far worse economy that Obama did, and he made it recover far faster and stronger. Obama, like FDR, prolonged the bad economy he inherited.

Trump took the virus super serious. Travel bans and closing the booming economy. Lefties cannot stand that he did not act like an idiot and scare everyone to death. He did not tell everyone to wear the useless masks. And he had to deal with a Democrat Party that wanted to use the virus to attack him instead of helping things.

Finally, no historian that is actually a serious historian would rank a POTUS less than 20 years out of office. Meaning we can only now see the results of Clinton, who was highly regarded but left the dotcom crash that set up the 2008 crash.

duffman pretending to know someone's expertise better than they do. Nothing new there.

20 years out of office. Okay we'll use your made-up requirements.

The biggest movement on the list since CSPan started surveying them in 2010 is 13 points for Ulyssis S Grant.

That would still put Trump 2 spots below Carter. And we know what you think of Carter.

BTW, if historians can't rate Trump accurately for 20 years, how can you?

Quote: Gandler

He only ranked low, because he ranked low in their measures. I am sure that it must be some left-wing conspiracy to rank Reagan and Eisenhower above Obama, or make a Republican the top of the list....

Trump is just not a good President, and he will never be a good President by any objective measure. This is not a liberal or conservative thing (I am more moderate than many on the left, I even occasionally vote for Republicans, especially if they lean into neoconservatism). Trump was just bad, I don't know how he still has a dedicated fan base.

Trump did a good thing with Israel (that I have posted about before, so I am not sure why you are acting like I never acknowledged it), he also did a good thing with Space Force, and increasing the research budget of the military. However, his decision to pull out of Afghanistan counteracted all of these measures. As did his pulling back the extended nuclear deterrent umbrella (essentially that we would automatically use nuclear weapons if any NATO country was attacked with nukes).

He inherited and excellent economy (unlike Obama, who probably inherited the worst economy in modern history). And, he disbanded the Pandemic task Force in 2018, and did not appoint a new CDC epidemiologist in the China posting when they resigned. The virus was bad because of actions that he directly made, and initially he did not take the virus seriously.

Everything Trump does ends in disaster, there was no reason to expect that his Presidency would be any different.

I think Trump was also corrupting more institutions of government than even what usually happens when government switches from one partisan side to another. I wouldn't give 2 cents for many of the people he was actually trying to get appointments for in different areas and fortunately he didn't get several of the ones he wanted. The biggest requirement being a toady for Trump regardless of the requirements of objectivity in the job. The damage he would do in these underlying areas over time would be particularly bad if he stayed in office.

We've seen over and over lately the people most important to Trump can be batshit nuts but being hardline Trumper's gives them at a least a pass. Trump's an example of someone never to give political power.

I have no doubt Trump will be ranked below Andrew Johnson
Twice impeached to Johnson's 1 impeachment
I visited the Andrew Johnson's Tailor shop
I learned a lot about him
Honest selfmade man
He survived the impeachment conviction because he was innocent
On the flip side Trump was clearly guilty but survived due to politics and incited violence to prevent the peaceful transfer of power