Suing Cumberbatch for reparations
January 6th, 2023 at 5:02:36 PM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18775 |
Property being long gone; why does that matter? FTX CEO can't pay back what was lost. That doesn't make him less culpable. Your father having an accident isn't a comparable example. The comparable example is you also profiting from the accident. Things being hard to trace only is important if you literally can't figure out whether there is actual liability connected to the family. If you can't, you can't. Going through Trump's tax returns is a monster to investigate properly. Doesn't mean it should be ignored. Finally, I can't agree dead doesn't matter. That you can show a family profited from the original offense is what manners. It may be impossible in most cases to show what you need to show to qualify for some reimbursement. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
January 6th, 2023 at 5:42:26 PM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
I think it's a fair example (since it is the perpetration that matters, not the loss, though there is a loss in a damaged building, and a victim). But we can switch to a profit crime (and probably one that is more realistic, since he does not drink and rarely drives): If my Dad (let's say he is an accountant for a collection firm) over the course of his life trickled out small amounts of money from his clients collection accounts and over many decades he accumulated sizable wealth while staying under the radar, He died and the estate was probated long before the embezzlement was discovered (let's say I inherited 100%, his wife died first and I am the only child), would I be responsible for paying back his clients or the firm? Legally (in the U.S.) I would not be responsible criminally or civil, it would be my money and how it was acquired by my deceased father is 100% irrelevant and not my problem. Now, let's say 200 years from now, my great great great great great grandchildren children (that should be about correct) inherit the wealth which has presumably grown and the collection firm my Dad worked for still exists, and somehow due to a random historical audit they just then discover the embezzlement (and I and all subsequent generations have no idea about it), is it on my future relatives to all get together and pool money to repay the firm once they have concrete proof that at least some of the wealth was obtained by illicit means generations ago? The answer to both questions is the same (morally and legally), the original perpetrator died, and the status of the wealth now in different hands is irrelevant (how much was due to his embezzlement, and how much was our own making, how much was lost and gained over the years versus the stolen wealth etc....) Except this example is now taken to another extreme by saying a sovereign country (not an individual or business) was victimized by a specific family 200 years ago and needs to be repaid. I just don't understand how anyone thinks there is any kind of legal precedent here. |
January 6th, 2023 at 6:17:26 PM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18775 | Pretty sure we're just going to go around and around on this. I actually have a bigger issue with conservatives' position against the idea of reparations as they go on about the importance of people earning what they have, but then leaping upon the idea they owe nothing if they advantaged from some past malfeasance. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
January 7th, 2023 at 5:41:40 AM permalink | |
DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4972 |
I think one of the points being missed is if something wasn't illegal at the time, it is a different story. Slavery wasn't illegal at the time so should reparations have to be paid? At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent. |
January 7th, 2023 at 7:19:14 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18775 |
Can't say I've ever heard that argument. (Or if I did I forgot) Of course this is Barbados and the UK.
In the US it may take a Constitutional amendment. So, it seems likely that there is even less concern if you're worried about reparations being applied. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
January 7th, 2023 at 8:13:56 AM permalink | |
kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4530 | With drugs we treat the gangs that import and bulk distribute the drugs as those with the most liability. The individual users and dealers are mostly ignored by the law. If we follow that logic for slaves then the bulk of the liability should lie with the other African tribes that originally captured them in Africa and the gangs that purchased them in Africa and transported them to N. America and ran the slave auctions would have the most liability. The individual users of the slaves would have little or no liability. Do the descendants of the many black bosses that kept the slaves in line for the white owners also have to pay reparations? "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
January 7th, 2023 at 9:10:31 AM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
Well, I am certainly not a conservative, and I am definitely against ancestral reparations. I am not against "reparations" (as a blanket term), as legally the term can mean many things (and usually applies to living victims receiving compensation for tangible harm, like the many examples already discussed. But, I think my questions were very fair (and realistic scenarios that happen every year to varied degrees), you just have to extrapolate the individuals and buisneses into families and countries, and it's the same concept. It all comes down to being financially responsible for something you had no control over and may or may not have indirectly benefited from..... The idea that so many on the left now support ancestral reparations is baffling to me. As extreme as Bernie Sanders is even he thought it was a crazy idea in his last debate (and would run counter to more popular and reasonable equality and distribution plans). UBI and universal Healthcare would be the best reparations for society (to allow everyone to benefit). |
January 7th, 2023 at 9:12:12 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18775 |
You’re equating slave owners with drug users? Personally, I’m not even sure if being a slave is second only to being murdered as an offense. Guess it depends on how lucky you are with your overseers. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
January 7th, 2023 at 9:35:03 AM permalink | |
kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4530 |
My post is just an example that shows that enforcement of laws and who is responsible varies greatly depending on circumstance. How about murdering the plant. Will the next generations want reparations from you for killing the planet by burning fossil fuels? Will you voluntarily pay? "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
January 7th, 2023 at 9:46:44 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18775 |
They’ll at least come for the rightwing first, if they’re paying attention. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |