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Who shot Kennedy?

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Poll

	Only Oswald.		6 votes (46.15%)
	Unknown, but not Oswald.		1 vote (7.69%)
	Oswald, with additional unknown shooter(s).		4 votes (30.76%)
	I'm a bigot.		2 votes (15.38%)

13 members have voted

November 21st, 2013 at 12:56:49 PM permalink

TheCesspit

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929

Quote: Fleastiff
Sorry. I can't vote without a review of the evidence regarding the rifle and the marksmanship of Oswald. My understanding is that he was a lousy shot and someone once suggested he go rabbit hunting with a shot gun.

Opinions differ. Oswald got decent shooting scores, rather than great:

Quote:

In December 1956, after “a very intensive 3 weeks’ training period” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.11, p.302), Oswald scored 212: two marks above the minimum for a ‘sharpshooter’.
In May 1959, he scored 191: one mark above the minimum for a ‘marksman’.

Quote:
Whether it was technically possible to fire rounds from the rifle, recover them from a gel block, fit them to a sabot in a "real" sniper's rifle, I do not know. Seems absurdly cumbersome to me just to frame some minor patsy.

Ruby? At the time Elephant Jokes were popular in the USA. (How do you know there is an elephant in the refrigerator? You see his footprints in the jello.) Ruby was there as a "spotter" for the local media... or as the elephant joke goes "What happened when the elephant walked into the police station in Dallas" The answer ofcourse is Nothing. No one saw him.

So sorry folks. It just seems a little too "pat". You have a weird loner as a triggerman who points in a safe direction (that of weirdo nutcase sole actor) but you also have a conveniently dying night club owner whose pals with all the cops and he gets real close to the action, knows they ain't using no armored car and silences the Patsy/Sniper, whichever it be.

Ruby didn't die for another 4 years from cancer. Was he sick when he committed the crime? He expected to be feted as a hero. I suspect he was allowed in as it was Jack... and the policemen knew Jack... why not. He then took it as a opportunity.

The screw up theory works again. No conspiracy, just a bunch of random stuff, that happened. I would partially believe 'THEY' let it happen in both Oswald and Ruby's case, but I've not seen anything strong enough to support even that level of conspiracy.

It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life

November 21st, 2013 at 1:02:01 PM permalink
odiousgambit Member since: Oct 28, 2012 Threads: 154 Posts: 5108	Quote: Wizard Isn't that Oliver Stone's position? I think so. It pains me to think people watched that film thinking it had any honesty whatsoever. I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

November 21st, 2013 at 1:17:10 PM permalink
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545	Quote: rxwine Elvis was pushed. I thought a certain movie established Elvis went home ;) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

November 21st, 2013 at 1:26:43 PM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18211

Quote: TheCesspit
You mean Ruby, not Oswald?

I think I agree. The evidence for the lucky assasin theory is pretty compelling. The rest is added mystique. People -want- there to be a conspiracy (see : 9/11 for another one) as it makes it all the more interesting, and we just don't like the f-up theory of history. (The F-Up theory is that big things happen because people screw up in small but disastrous ways).

No, I mean for Oswald to get as close to JFK as he did. First, Oswald joins the USMC, later defects to the USSR, then he comes back to the USA with a Russian bride in tow. All by age 30? To even come back to the USA is a stretch, for the Russians to let one of their own come with him is a bigger stretch. The Secret Service not clearing buildings even in 1963 is a stretch. Where it happened is a very small, constricted area. There is tape of a Secret Service agent throwing up his arms in disgust a block before it happened because of how lax everything was.

Oswald was more than he appeared. We will never know for sure. But you defect to the USSR in the early 1960s you really could not come back if you were just anyone.

The President is a fink.

November 21st, 2013 at 2:23:17 PM permalink

rxwine

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762

I haven't read much about it in a long time. I didn't even remember this:

Quote:
Marina Oswald testified that Lee told her on April 10, 1963 that he had used the rifle earlier that night in an attempt to assassinate retired U.S. Army General Edwin Walker, a controversial political activist, at Walker's home in Dallas.[12] The bullet was deflected from hitting Walker when it struck a window frame.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

November 21st, 2013 at 3:18:42 PM permalink

TheCesspit

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929

Quote: AZDuffman
No, I mean for Oswald to get as close to JFK as he did. First, Oswald joins the USMC, later defects to the USSR, then he comes back to the USA with a Russian bride in tow. All by age 30? To even come back to the USA is a stretch, for the Russians to let one of their own come with him is a bigger stretch. The Secret Service not clearing buildings even in 1963 is a stretch. Where it happened is a very small, constricted area. There is tape of a Secret Service agent throwing up his arms in disgust a block before it happened because of how lax everything was.

Oswald was more than he appeared. We will never know for sure. But you defect to the USSR in the early 1960s you really could not come back if you were just anyone.

He was a lone loser and misfit, I think.

I do find the de-defection interesting... but not convinced that it's anything more than that, or the Communists thought he might be a useful tool back in the US. I don't think they had him as an assassin for JFK (or any other reason).

But we shall never really know, as Ruby pretty much ended any speculation that could be resolved.

It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life

November 21st, 2013 at 5:01:44 PM permalink

rxwine

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762

Quote: TheCesspit
But we shall never really know, as Ruby pretty much ended any speculation that could be resolved.

The Russians might have something, if there is any connection at all. But I think even 50 years and our current relations, it's still too soon.

20-30 years more, maybe they produce something. If there is anything at all to produce.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

November 22nd, 2013 at 5:34:19 AM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18211

Quote: TheCesspit
He was a lone loser and misfit, I think.

I do find the de-defection interesting... but not convinced that it's anything more than that, or the Communists thought he might be a useful tool back in the US. I don't think they had him as an assassin for JFK (or any other reason).

But we shall never really know, as Ruby pretty much ended any speculation that could be resolved.

It is not just the de-defection, it is that he brought Marina back with him. Remember, pre-1980s it was next to impossible for a citizen if the USSR to emigrate. To have a defector to the "worker's paradise" leave after so short of a time and take one of their own back, well I just do not see the USSR doing it in the same period as the Cuban Missile Crisis and almost starting a war in Berlin.

Note that I am not saying the Communists set it up, I am saying Oswald was no loner, loser, and misfit. He may have been a dupe, but he was more than is made out to be.

The President is a fink.

November 22nd, 2013 at 12:03:13 PM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Quote: TheCesspit
I do find the de-defection interesting... but not convinced that it's anything more than that,

Many would-be Communists found the reality of Communism all too real and unpleasant to take. Further, Oswald was a US citizen, so the Soviets would not hold him

Quote:
or the Communists thought he might be a useful tool back in the US. I don't think they had him as an assassin for JFK (or any other reason).

Maybe, but he was hardly a crucial or important asset. Having gone over to the Soviets he would not have expected to be welcomed back to the US Navy, nor obtained any kind of useful position in another part of the government (a few years alter yes, but not in the early 60s).

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

November 23rd, 2013 at 8:19:46 AM permalink

s2dbaker

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 13
Posts: 241

I think it's obvious that Oswald was killed by a second shooter who fired her gun simultaneously with Jack Ruby so that only one gunshot sound would appear on the tapes. She did it to silence Oswald who knew about the Whitewater conspiracy! When Vince Foster found out about it, the same person single handedly strangled him to keep him silent. I think we all know who I'm talking about. That's right, it was Margaret Thatcher!

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