American by right of soil

Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen by virtue of his birth in New Mexico in 1971, was killed by an American drone in Yemen along with another U.S. citizen, Samir Khan, who grew up in New York City and Charlotte, North Carolina. This is the first known case where the American President personally authorized the killing of an American citizen without trial who is not in immediate situation where he is threatening other people.

We are once again struck by the rather difficult concept that anyone born on American soil is a citizen. Many people feel that the courts are not interpreting the 14th amendment correctly. They feel that the qualifying clause is essentially ignored,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. - beginning of 14th amendment

The idea that someone who lived as a child or even just as an infant in the USA, and then joins Al Qaeda, naturally bothers people when he is called a citizen.

The retired general simply says that he considers it perfectly ethical and legal that in the hypothetical situation of Timothy McVeigh being tracked driving his U-Haul to the government building that the government uses a drone to take him and the truck out instead of risking the safety of officers.

There was a report yesterday (forget which TV network news), that there is a small flourishing business in China that arranges for Chinese to have an American baby.

They pay a fee (around 20k) go to some island to give birth and the kid qualifies as a American citizen because of the territory it's located on.

I thought US citizen under their jurisdiction had the right to a trial. Anwar and Samir may have been bad people, and perhaps you could classify them as "enemy combatents", and perhaps there is some clause where "enemy combatent" overrides citizenship, but it seems awfully murky to me.

Quote: rxwine

that's been going on for a while. When i worked at Richmond hospital (the closest hospital to Vancouver airport), we had tons of chinese babies being born and therefore having Canadian citizenship, a pretty common practice.

Maybe the president in 2060 will be some chinese baby born on American Samoa or Guam.

Quote: boymimbo

I thought US citizen under their jurisdiction had the right to a trial. Anwar and Samir may have been bad people, and perhaps you could classify them as "enemy combatants", and perhaps there is some clause where "enemy combatant" overrides citizenship, but it seems awfully murky to me.

American Civil Liberties Union, Ron Paul, legal scholars, and libertarians, who have long argued that the constitution’s Fifth Amendment, which says that no citizen shall be “deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law” means that the constitution bars killing non-combatants without a trial. Since Awlaki had not been convicted in a proper court or hasn’t been killed
while shooting at American soldiers, they contend, his killing is unconstitutional. A side argument, beloved by the ACLU, is that the method of deciding who goes on the CIA target list is secret and therefore an illegal violation of due process.

The primary constitutional precedent for killing citizens in war time, is in the civil war when President Lincoln ordered the assassination of US citizens far from any battlefield or courtroom.

Decades ago, when NYC was a lot more unstable, you would sometimes go by a guy with a bullhorn calling out for people to start a race riot complete with large scale killing. It makes you uncomfortable, but you pretty much count on people to ignore him. It's a fine line to setting precedents in much simpler cases lik Awlaki,but someone may have the authority to declare these people on streetcorners a threat to America and simply dispatch them.

Quote: boymimbo

Maybe the president in 2060 will be some chinese baby born on American Samoa or Guam.

Or another Kenyan!! :)

Quote: rxwine

There was a report yesterday (forget which TV network news), that there is a small flourishing business in China that arranges for Chinese to have an American baby.

When you make a lawful activit, immigration, nearly impossible to achieve within the law, and a crime otherwise, while at the same time you have a high demand for immigrants, don't blame people when they find ways around it.

Quote: rxwine

They pay a fee (around 20k) go to some island to give birth and the kid qualifies as a American citizen because of the territory it's located on.

The Island is Saipan. Guam and the Northern Marianas are actually considered separate territories, but if you have a baby on either territory it automatically becomes a citizen (same as Canal Zone in Panama).

Saipan has a population of roughly 50,000 and many of them are Chinese. The Chinese language is widely used. So it is a natural place to have a "right of soil" American citizen baby.

The only hospital in Saipan.


Guam is popular with Japanese tourists as a beach resort. One big diversion is shooting guns in target ranges. Many Japanese are curious about guns, and it is next to impossible to fire a gun in Japan (especially a big one). So they vacation on American territory.