God and Gay Marriage

Quote: Evenbob

When we talk about equal rights, that's
when. Equal rights for all humans. Not
for some but not others.

I think we finally agree on something.

Quote: FrGamble

I think we finally agree on something.

So the Church will view human couples as
equal in marriage now? No more yes
to one and no to the other? If not
then it's still discrimination of the
highest order, for no good reason at
all.

Two men or two women are not, nor can they ever be, married as Jesus Christ defines marriage. Can a married man be a bachelor? No, and that is not discrimination is it? Look, you are really spinning around in circles and are emotionally upset about this issue so maybe you should just stop posting for awhile.

Quote: FrGamble

Two men or two women are not, nor can they ever be, married as Jesus Christ defines marriage.

Sure they can, and are. You love the semantics
too much, you see bigotry and discrimination
where none was intended. It profited the Church
to keep Gays from marrying, just like it profited
them in encouraging large families and being
against birth control. Every baby born was a
Catholic baby, and Gay men produce none. No
legacy there for the Church, babies are future
coffer fillers. Always follow the money.

I see plenty of bigotry and discrimination against the Church in your post.

Quote: FrGamble

I see plenty of bigotry and discrimination against the Church in your post.

You're mistaken. You see plenty of truth
in my post.

Quote: FrGamble

Any references to segregation in regards to the issue of same sex "marriage" is racist.

It's not.

I'd ask for an explanation, but I've better things to do this week than try to wheedle one out of you.

I really liked you better before you got all obsessively obtuse.

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Nor is there a fundamental difference between homosexuals or heterosexuals.

Just between their relationships?

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There is a fundamental difference between men and women.

Water is wet, fire is hot, ice is cold, there are no gods and 6-to-5 is not blackjack. And so?

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It is so simple that I don't understand why people don't get it.

Let me explain: imagine you claim Communism is superior to Capitalism. When asked why, you say "because cars are not trucks." Given that kind of "explanation," no one is ever going to get it.

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Now I am accused of not explaining why this relationship is different. It is different because men and women are different. I think this is clear without going into how these different couples may or may not express their love sexually, if they can reproduce or not, the complementarity of the sexes, etc., etc.

"Cars are not trucks."

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Finally, Nareed I agree with you that our rights are inherent to us as human beings.

No, you do not.

You claim they are given by a figment of the collective imagination. That is so much worse and so much more detrimental to the free exercise of rights even than thinking they are given by the government or society. because the latter two do exist and can be consulted, while the former does not and anyone can make any claims regarding it.

Quote: FrGamble

Two men or two women are not, nor can they ever be, married as Jesus Christ defines marriage.

Fuck Jesus. He has nothing at all to do with this debate, the meaning of the word "marriage," or anything else relating to civil marital law.

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us, Christian theocracy is as dead as Jesus.

Quote: Nareed

It's not.

I'd ask for an explanation, but I've better things to do this week than try to wheedle one out of you.

It is and I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself. Just ask yourself, are the differences between men and women the same as between blacks and whites?

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Just between their relationships?

You are really getting confused. There is no fundamental difference between a homosexual man and a heterosexual man. There is a difference between a man and a woman - you already said this is as obvious as water is wet. So why does it not follow that the relationship between two men or two women is fundamentally different (but equal under the law) as a relationship between a man and a woman? I really don't understand how you are not getting this. Maybe you don't agree but can't articulate it, that is fine; but to say that I am presenting some non-sequitur like "cars are different than trucks" is just you ignoring what I'm saying.

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Let me explain: imagine you claim Communism is superior to Capitalism. When asked why, you say "because cars are not trucks." Given that kind of "explanation," no one is ever going to get it.

First of all I am NOT arguing that anything is better or not. I am saying that Communism is different than Capitalism and hence we have different names to describe them. Thanks for the analogy and I hope it clears up your misunderstanding.

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You claim they are given by a figment of the collective imagination. That is so much worse and so much more detrimental to the free exercise of rights even than thinking they are given by the government or society. because the latter two do exist and can be consulted, while the former does not and anyone can make any claims regarding it.

First of all God is real. Secondly even a collective figment of imagination is better than you just waving a wand claiming that human beings have rights. That is Nareed claiming such a bold statement. You are certainly not God, nor are you a government with any authority over me. The whole point of you or governments wanting to claim to be the source of human rights is so that you can consult and take away or change them. This is what has been played out throughout history to disastrous consequences. If you have no foundation or anchor to your rights you might as well be making them up, well because YOU are. Instead ground them in something real and transcendent, like God and they become universal and inviolable.

Quote: Nareed

He has nothing at all to do with this debate, the meaning of the word "marriage," or anything else relating to civil marital law.

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us, Christian theocracy is as dead as Jesus.

I forget that you have Evenbob blocked and so probably cannot see his posts. I was responding to him saying that according to my idea that homosexual unions and heterosexual marriages should be equal under the law then they should be able to get married in Church. I was fine leaving the good Lord Jesus out of our discussion because we were currently talking about marriage as it is or not recognized by the state. I'm sorry if that offended you.

Christian theocracy is dead, but Christian theology will be the salvation and source of hope, joy, and love for our society as it resurrects us from our moral and spiritual confusion and malaise.