Where does the soul reside?

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June 10th, 2016 at 11:16:14 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4530
With the many discussions on going in our religious threads I started thinking about a soul if it exists. We also have EB’s “life source” which he has poorly defined but insists it is not the soul.
If the Padre is right and a soul exists where in our body does it reside? It can’t be in your limbs because we all know people missing a limb. They are still the same person that existed before the limb loss so if they had a soul before that they must still have it. The same can be said about most of our organs since we can live without many of our organs.
Most of us would probably not think of the kidneys for the home of the soul. Are we without a soul when they are removed and we are surviving on dialysis? If that were the case would we regain our soul when we received a transplant – would it be our original soul for the soul from the person who donated a kidney?
Most of you have that bothered reading this far would probably be thinking kenarman you are nuts thinking a soul would be in a kidney. What about the location that many philosophers over the years have located it, the heart. Everything I elaborated on about the kidney is also true for the heart.
This leaves us with our most complex organ the brain. If this were the location it also creates many hard to answer questions. What happens if we are “brain dead”? The body is still alive but is it soulless? I expect that the Padre will tell us that your soul is still with you until you complete body is dead.
A problem that the Padre’s position doesn’t address is the ‘out of body near death experience’. This is a widely documented but not conclusively proven experience. Many people who believe it can happen probably view it as the soul temporarily leaving the body.
Other question that arise are, when is the soul created? Does an embryo have a soul? How does it get there if it exists? Where did it exist before it took up residence in the embryo, or later in development if you prefer.
As you can see I have many questions and few answers. I would be interested in the forums thoughts on my musings. I would also hope that EB, Nareed and the Padre can keep the school yard taunts out of the discussion and bring in any insight they may have.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
June 10th, 2016 at 11:36:13 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: kenarman
If the Padre is right and a soul exists where in our body does it reside?


The Padre is not right, the soul exists, and it resides almost entirely in the brain.

Quote:
What happens if we are “brain dead”? The body is still alive but is it soulless?


Yes, precisely.

Quote:
This is a widely documented but not conclusively proven experience. Many people who believe it can happen probably view it as the soul temporarily leaving the body.


The soul can no more leave the body than the heart can. It exists only so long as there is a working brain. There is ample research on out of body experiences, and there are neurological explanation for it. Here's one: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/bringing-out-of-body-experiences-down-to-earth/


Quote:
Other question that arise are, when is the soul created?


When the brain develops enough activity to form a mind. Exactly when this happens is not precisely known. It's possible it happens before birth, but it may happen afterwards. There's as yet no mechanism to measure brain activity in a human fetus, but I suppose animal experiments could provide a rough first approximation.

Quote:
Does an embryo have a soul?


No. The fetus might. see above.

Quote:
How does it get there if it exists?


It develops along with the rest of the body. The brain is part of the body.


Quote:
Where did it exist before it took up residence in the embryo, or later in development if you prefer.


Where did the fetus' heartbeat reside before the fetus developed a beating heart? Answer: it didn't' exist, therefore it didn't reside anywhere.

Quote:
I would also hope that EB, Nareed and the Padre can keep the school yard taunts out of the discussion and bring in any insight they may have.


That's a really big thing to ask for! :)
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
June 10th, 2016 at 11:42:00 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25042
Nareed has no soul. Mike bought it and it's
in his home safe.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 10th, 2016 at 11:48:56 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4530
Thanks Nareed I was sure you had thoughts on the question.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
June 10th, 2016 at 11:49:36 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4530
Quote: Evenbob
Nareed has no soul. Mike bought it and it's
in his home safe.


I think I remember a thread on the other site about that ;-)
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
June 10th, 2016 at 11:49:43 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25042
Quote: kenarman
I started thinking about a soul if it exists. .


Of course it does, it even has it's
own food.

If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 10th, 2016 at 12:19:43 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 190
Posts: 19003
Quote: kenarman
A problem that the Padre’s position doesn’t address is the ‘out of body near death experience’. This is a widely documented but not conclusively
,

An experiment was done in an operating room where a message or picture of some sort was put above the patient's head facing the ceiling, where if a floating above the body experience was related the patient should see it looking down.

Unfortunately, it did not produce results.

The mind does do many unusual things though. If you had all the abilities everyone has actually demonstrated it would still be pretty fantastic. Be able to play classical piano at 5, remember every face you ever saw, when and where, various calculating abilities, study college level subjects at grade school age, hypnosis abilities such as enduring being cut open without anesthesia, synesthesia (seeing sounds in colors), solving Rubik's cubes blindfolded!, and maybe some other things I've forgotten.

Though perhaps if we cannot float around outside our body that's not enough.

Nobody ever goes to the other side and asks for a cure to a disease. Some information like that, someone has never had access to would go a long ways to providing proof. Talking to dead relatives, not so much
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 10th, 2016 at 1:36:09 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 190
Posts: 19003
Some of you may be interested in this interview by Wired magazine of neuroscientist Christof Koch.

Quote:
WIRED: How did you come to believe in panpsychism?

Christof Koch: I grew up Roman Catholic, and also grew up with a dog. And what bothered me was the idea that, while humans had souls and could go to heaven, dogs were not suppose to have souls. Intuitively I felt that either humans and animals alike had souls, or none did. Then I encountered Buddhism, with its emphasis on the universal nature of the conscious mind. You find this idea in philosophy, too, espoused by Plato and Spinoza and Schopenhauer, that psyche — consciousness — is everywhere. I find that to be the most satisfying explanation for the universe, for three reasons: biological, metaphysical and computational.


http://www.wired.com/2013/11/christof-koch-panpsychism-consciousness/
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 10th, 2016 at 1:57:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25042
Quote: rxwine
http://www.wired.com/2013/11/christof-koch-panpsychism-consciousness/


Interesting article. I would equate universal
consciousness and life force as being about
the same thing. It's what makes us alive, it's
what animates us. I saw this:

"WIRED: I’ve read that you don’t kill insects if you can avoid it.
Koch: That’s true. They’re fellow travelers on the road, bookended by eternity on both sides."

That's exactly how I see it and why cockroaches
are equal to humans. The same force, call it
what you will, is at work in both and if you
know that, you have to respect it. I'll kill an insect
if it's bothering or threatening me, but otherwise
I let let them be.

And no, universal consciousness isn't god or godlike,
it's completely impersonal. It just exists and has always
existed, just like the universe. No one thing that happens
is more important than any other one thing, to the
universe. If something seems important, it's only so
to you because you're creating your own reality.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 10th, 2016 at 2:01:11 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6096
Quote: Nareed
When the brain develops enough activity to form a mind. Exactly when this happens is not precisely known. It's possible it happens before birth, but it may happen afterwards. There's as yet no mechanism to measure brain activity in a human fetus, but I suppose animal experiments could provide a rough first approximation.


At the risk of changing the topic, the Wikipedia page on prenatal pain says, "However, medical experts,[5] have proven that human fetal pain begins as early as the second trimester,[6] of pregnancy.[7] In March 2010, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists submitted a report,[8] concluding that "Current research shows that the sensory structures are not developed or specialized enough to respond to pain in a fetus of less than 24 weeks", pg. 22.


Seems to me, if you can feel pain you have a mind.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
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