whites with college degrees

Quote: Pacomartin

I think it is a good example of the difference between data and analysis plus presentation.

The old book "How to lie with statistics" is one of the best books ever published.

Quote: SOOPOO

Perhaps reducing, but not eliminating. There are still a gazillion jobs that you have no chance for without a college education, even if that education has nothing to do with the job....

Is there that many? I would assume physicians but I know you can become lawyers and accountants without "formal" university/college education in some states as long as you can pass the exams.

Quote: DRich

The old book "How to lie with statistics" is one of the best books ever published.

It was one of my college textbooks. One of the ones I kept for years afterwards.

Looked up the author. Interesting to find this:

Quote:

Huff "was paid to testify before Congress in the 1950s and then again in the 1960s, with the assigned task of ridiculing any notion of a cigarette-disease link. On March 22, 1965, Huff testified at hearings on cigarette labeling and advertising, accusing the recent Surgeon General's report of myriad failures and 'fallacies'."[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Huff

Quote: DRich

Is there that many? I would assume physicians but I know you can become lawyers and accountants without "formal" university/college education in some states as long as you can pass the exams.

Try applying for a job at Google or Apple or Microsoft without a college degree. Even Enterprise Rent a Car advertises that they hire college grads of all types. I do not think you can be a lawyer without a JD degree now, but could be wrong.
My father in law is an accountant for the past 60 years, and even though he owns his own business not having a CPA has certainly been a detriment to his business. (He has a college degree, but no advance degree)

Of course college isn't for everyone. A friend's son got his welding certificate, and at least for now is probably making more than my son with the Computer programming degree.

Quote: SOOPOO

Try applying for a job at Google or Apple or Microsoft without a college degree. Even Enterprise Rent a Car advertises that they hire college grads of all types.

Of course college isn't for everyone. A friend's son got his welding certificate, and at least for now is probably making more than my son with the Computer programming degree.

This has happened because of so many people with degrees. It becomes just another filter. Now, MSFT probably has legit reasons not to just want a degree but to want one from a fairly prestigious school like MIT or CMU. Those places pump out people with great computer skills. But to need a degree to upsell collision damage waivers at a rental counter not so much.

Welding is my favorite example of can be better than college. Good fab skill for specialty work.

Quote: SOOPOO

Try applying for a job at Google or Apple or Microsoft without a college degree.

I know for a fact you can become a lawyer in California without a degree as long as you do a comprehensive clerkship and pass the bar exam.

I don't disagree that it would be uncommon to get a position with those companies without a degree but it is not a requirement. If Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg wanted to work at Google they would have a job tomorrow.

There are exceptions for just about every job out there. When discussing this with my wife she assumed you can't be a teacher without a degree but almost every state has an alternative certification process that will allow you to be a teacher.

Sure, you can teach or be a lawyer without
a degree. But it will hugely impact what
you're paid. Try joining a law firm without
a degree, or get a good teaching job. My
daughter has a masters in math and teaches
college. She's working on a doctorate because
her pay will go up substantially.

But half the kids in college don't belong there.
I have a cousin who dropped of HS in the 80's
and has always made huge bucks as a semi
driver. Several people I know went to 2 year
tech schools and are doing very well. Hands
on jobs is where it's at, getting your hands
dirty can make you a lot of money these days.
There is a big shortage of plumbers everywhere,
and it's only getting worse.

Quote: DRich

When discussing this with my wife she assumed you can't be a teacher without a degree but almost every state has an alternative certification process that will allow you to be a teacher.

In New York State the difference in salaries for teachers with Masters Degrees and those without is huge.

Quote: SOOPOO

In New York State the difference in salaries for teachers with Masters Degrees and those without is huge.

I don't doubt that at all. My only point is that there are very few positions that require a degree. In most cases it will be beneficial.

Quote: SOOPOO

In New York State the difference in salaries for teachers with Masters Degrees and those without is huge.

My daughter teaches college in NY state,
and it is huge. She has 30 credits towards
a doctorate, I hope the college she's at
can afford her when she gets it.