The Coronavirus thread

Question: How deadly does an air transmittable virus need to be before you would require mandatory vaccinations and take away free choice?

Now consider the joke.

Quote:

Man to woman: Would you sleep with me for one million dollars?
Woman: Sure.
Man: How about for ten dollars?
Woman: What do you think I am?
Man: We’ve already established what you are. All we’re doing is bargaining about price.

*already accepting that Drich or Mission may say everyone can die.

But it's a legit question for others who don't take the extreme position.

Quote: rxwine

Question: How deadly does an air transmittable virus need to be before you would require mandatory vaccinations and take away free choice?

Now consider the joke.



*already accepting that Drich or Mission may say everyone can die.

But it's a legit question for others who don't take the extreme position.

Never, because I would want for live birth to be a woman's only exception to being permitted an abortion. Of course, live birth makes it murder, so it's not an abortion anymore. You either believe an individual has the right of autonomy over their own body, or you don't.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: rxwine

Question: How deadly does an air transmittable virus need to be before you would require mandatory vaccinations and take away free choice?

Now consider the joke.



*already accepting that Drich or Mission may say everyone can die.

But it's a legit question for others who don't take the extreme position.

Never, because I would want for live birth to be a woman's only exception to being permitted an abortion. Of course, live birth makes it murder, so it's not an abortion anymore. You either believe an individual has the right of autonomy over their own body, or you don't.

Well, you've taken the extreme position, I think. Maybe you could rephrase that in some form so I can understand it better.

Quote: rxwine

Well, you've taken the extreme position, I think. Maybe you could rephrase that in some form so I can understand it better.

The notion of, "My body, my choice," should be upheld as an inalienable principle, yes or no?

Quote: Mission146

The notion of, "My body, my choice," should be upheld as an inalienable principle, yes or no?

HELL NO
Its absurd to base policy on a slogan

Quote: terapined

HELL NO
Its absurd to base policy on a slogan

You're not basing policy on a slogan; a slogan was created based on a principle. A principle that both major parties only selectively pretend to actually care about.

Quote: Mission146

The notion of, "My body, my choice," should be upheld as an inalienable principle, yes or no?

As to actual abortion law, the choice has basically limited to 1st trimester with exceptions for danger to the health of the mother and sometimes other things. Not sure when it's been all the way up to birth here in the US, but perhaps before it was ever codified into law.

Yup, what I'm trying to show, is most people are "freedom takers" we're just haggling over price.(similar to the joke) If 70 percent of everyone is dying, freedom from mandatory vaccine won't seem so appealing I suspect.

But you aren't a "freedom taker" if you never budge on freedom from forced vaccinations no matter what the cost to human life. So you are principled, but I'm not sure how ideal that really is in practice, IMO, looking at the ultimate outcome of that idea.

Quote: rxwine

As to actual abortion law, the choice has basically limited to 1st trimester with exceptions for danger to the health of the mother and sometimes other things. Not sure when it's been all the way up to birth here in the US, but perhaps before it was ever codified into law.

Yup, what I'm trying to show, is most people are "freedom takers" we're just haggling over price.(similar to the joke) If 70 percent of everyone is dying, freedom from mandatory vaccine won't seem so appealing I suspect.

But you aren't a "freedom taker" if you never budge on freedom from forced vaccinations no matter what the cost to human life. So you are principled, but I'm not sure how ideal that really is in practice, IMO, looking at the ultimate outcome of that idea.

Personally, I'm in favor of allowing for abortions anytime, so that's my position on that.

I got the vaccine and I don't care what anyone else does, so that's my position on that. If they don't want to get it, then you can challenge them on that, but I don't think the Government should force a vaccine on anyone anymore than it should force a woman who wants an abortion to give birth.

Again, you either have principles, or you don't. If something that someone purports to be a principle is based only on desired outcomes, then it's not actually a principle. Anyway, we definitely agree that most people are freedom takers.

Quote: Pacomartin

11,413 COVID deaths week ending Sept 10, 2021
5,035 COVID deaths week ending Sept 10, 2020 (before the vaccine)

This is insane!

The worst week in January 2021 was ~24,000 deaths in one week. We are only 16,000 deaths away from breaking the record number of deaths in the 1918 flu epidemic. October 1918 was the deadliest month in American history with 200,000 dead in one month.

Can you normalize the absolute 1918 death number for the increased population in 2020 vs. 1918?
You're analysis is normally better that this grossly misleading comparison.
Any information on percentage of 11,413 deaths that were previously vaccinated individuals?
When 95%+ of deaths & hospitalizations end up being un-vaccinated, I stop caring.
The unvaccinated have made their choice & they get to live or die with it.
It's not my job or the government's job to protect you from you.
That is called personal agency and this country was founded on that concept.

Quote: rxwine

Question: How deadly does an air transmittable virus need to be before you would require mandatory vaccinations and take away free choice?

My gut reaction is the virus would have to be more than 0.5% lethal for a fully vaccinated person to require others to vaccinate.
What are the stats on a fully vaccinated person dying of Covid regardless of underlying morbidity?
Underlying morbidity would factor into my analysis, but I have ignored it in this first pass at answering the question.