Electric Consumption by state

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March 15th, 2023 at 2:02:33 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Electric Consumption by state is currently determined by climate mostly.

States that are hot and muggy, and ones where heat can be supplied by electric heat exchangers consume a lot of electricity. Highest states are LA,TN,MS,AL,AR,FL.

States that are not hot and muggy, and where it is too cold to use electric heat exchangers (fossil fuel is necessary) consume a lot less electricity. Lowest states are HI,CA,VT,ME,RI,AK,MA,NY,NH,NM,MI,NJ (where isolation in HI and AK is a factor also).

But with CA, NY,and NJ declaring goals to sell only Batter Electric Vehicles by 2035 consumption is going to depend more on population than climate. New York state is somewhat of an anomoly as it has such high rate of people using public transportation.

Pennsylvania is building a mega industry of natural gas plants to feed the electricity deficit in New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Delaware.

NJ gets over 50% of electricity from nuclear power in Nov. 2022.
NY gets ~22% of electricity from nuclear in Nov. 2022, but they shut down Indian Point Energy Center (I.P.E.C.) ,a three-unit nuclear power plant that was first commissioned October 1, 1962 largely because it was too close to Manhattan.
CA gets 6.0% of its' electricity from nuclear power in Nov. 2022. The state is now planning to decomission Diablo Canyon in 2030 (a delay of 5 years),

While I do not believe that mass conversion to EVs is impossible, I don't think these three states can do so without a renewed interest in nuclear power.

Norway is selling 80% of it's new cars as EVs as the industry is bolstered by massive tax incentives. But Norway is awash in more emission -free hydroelectric generated electricity than they could hope to use by themselves, so the make a tidy sum by exporting to other countries.
March 15th, 2023 at 2:31:28 PM permalink
DoubleGold
Member since: Jan 26, 2023
Threads: 30
Posts: 2490
For transportation, I think hydrogen (water cracked by the Sun's energy) will be the go to, not electricity.

But it'll take about 100 years to transition and longer if we choose electric vehicles.

Electricity takes too much energy to convert.

Oil, coal, and natural gas, are the Sun's energy there for the taking.

That's why they're so cheap.
March 15th, 2023 at 3:33:49 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4957
I am surprised Nevada isn't on the list of highest. My electric bill ran $600 a month in the heat of the summer.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
March 15th, 2023 at 11:39:32 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: DRich
I am surprised Nevada isn't on the list of highest. My electric bill ran $600 a month in the heat of the summer.


Here is the full list by consumption per account for 2021 (residential use only, not industrial or commercial)
  1. HI
  2. CA
  3. VT
  4. ME
  5. RI
  6. AK
  7. MA
  8. NY
  9. NH
  10. NM
  11. MI
  12. NJ
  13. WI
  14. CO
    DC
  15. CT
  16. IL
  17. UT
  18. MN
  19. PA
  20. IA
  21. WY
  22. MT
  23. OH
    US---------------------
  24. KS
  25. OR
  26. IN
  27. DE
  28. NV
  29. ID
  30. MD
  31. WA
  32. NE
  33. SD
  34. MO
  35. ND
  36. AZ
  37. NC
  38. WV
  39. GA
  40. SC
  41. KY
  42. OK
  43. TX
  44. VA
  45. FL
  46. AR
  47. AL
  48. MS
  49. TN
  50. LA


Economics has to come into play as well as just climate. After the rolling blackouts in CA during the heat wave of August 2020, the price of electricity during the afternoon and early evening of the summer months skyrocketed to discourage use,

While Hawaii has coool breezes and probably heat pumps only lightly used, they have no natural gas or nuclear. Coal is very expensive to ship over the ocean so they use oil, the most expensive fuel with virtually the same carbon dioxide emission level of coal.

The cheapest total bills are the lowest in Utah. It's a combination of relatively modest consumption and inexpensive primary sources.
Data for Utah for month of November 2022.
  • 52.7% Coal-Fired
  • 34.5% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 11.5% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 1.2% Hydroelectric
  • 0.1% Petroleum-Fired

Nevada is much more progressive than Utah about using renewables. CA Nonhydroelectric Renewables for the same month is 32.6%. Nevada may equal California in carbon dioxide emissions as the last of the coal-fired plants are closing in 2023.
Data for Nevada for month of November 2022.
  • 59.3% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 29.2% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 6.5% Coal-Fired
  • 5.0% Hydroelectric
  • 0.0% Petroleum-Fired

Data for California for month of November 2022.
  • 56.1% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 32.6% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 6.0% Nuclear
  • 5.2% Hydroelectric
  • 0.1% Coal-Fired
  • 0.0% Petroleum-Fired


It's not so much that I think it will be impossible to harness offshore wind,but there is a question of how much such a system is going to cost. California already has the highest rate of any state other than Hawaii and parts of New England.
March 16th, 2023 at 5:51:36 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4957
I had a friend in the 1990's that was kind of eccentric. He was trying to convince people that we should be using tidal action to generate electricity. This was completely novel in the 90's and most people just dismissed him because he was so eccentric. Today that seems to make some sense.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
March 16th, 2023 at 6:08:33 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11787
Quote: Pacomartin
California already has the highest rate of any state other than Hawaii and parts of New England.

When I stayed at RV parks in northern California
They had signs "No electric space heaters allowed!!!!!!!!!!"
It was an honor thing
No meters on the sites
I honored the request and used propane for heat
I'm in FL now on a metered site but electricity included in my monthly rate
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
March 16th, 2023 at 7:11:31 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4957
Quote: terapined
When I stayed at RV parks in northern California
They had signs "No electric space heaters allowed!!!!!!!!!!"
It was an honor thing
No meters on the sites
I honored the request and used propane for heat
I'm in FL now on a metered site but electricity included in my monthly rate


You might need to drag out that space heater. It is supposed to get cold starting Sunday. It is going to be in the 60's on Sunday and only in the 70's through Wednesday.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
March 16th, 2023 at 7:20:07 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11787
Quote: DRich
You might need to drag out that space heater. It is supposed to get cold starting Sunday. It is going to be in the 60's on Sunday and only in the 70's through Wednesday.

Loving it
AC in RV'S are pretty loud
I love sleeping without AC at night
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
March 17th, 2023 at 3:03:22 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5092
look at that coal use in Utah! I guess we can say they are quietly thumbing their nose with more modern notions about where we should get our energy

I do think it is a big question what will happen to the planet should the entire world use fossil fuels like the US did 30 years ago. I do care about the impact people have, I hate some of what happens, even the extinction of large mammals, the first big environmental impact humans had thousands of years ago. Fossil fuels are dirty, it'd be nice to get away from that. But because I feel that way doesn't mean I want to live in a fantasy world ... I get a kick in a small way thinking about what Utah is doing here, in spite of all this
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
March 17th, 2023 at 3:02:31 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Pacomartin
The cheapest total bills are the lowest in Utah. It's a combination of relatively modest consumption and inexpensive primary sources.
Data for Utah for month of November 2022.
  • 52.7% Coal-Fired
  • 34.5% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 11.5% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 1.2% Hydroelectric
  • 0.1% Petroleum-Fired

Nevada is much more progressive than Utah about using renewables. CA Nonhydroelectric Renewables for the same month is 32.6%. Nevada may equal California in carbon dioxide emissions as the last of the coal-fired plants are closing in 2023.
Data for Nevada for month of November 2022.
  • 59.3% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 29.2% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 6.5% Coal-Fired
  • 5.0% Hydroelectric
  • 0.0% Petroleum-Fired

Data for California for month of November 2022.
  • 56.1% Natural Gas-Fired
  • 32.6% Nonhydroelectric Renewables
  • 6.0% Nuclear
  • 5.2% Hydroelectric
  • 0.1% Coal-Fired
  • 0.0% Petroleum-Fired

Quote: odiousgambit
look at that coal use in Utah! I guess we can say they are quietly thumbing their nose with more modern notions about where we should get our energy


Utah's electricity net generation that came from coal-fired power plants was 75% in 2015. So I don't think " thumbing their nose" like Wyoming dos is quite the proper description. It's just that they probably like having the lowest average electric bills in the nation, and are not eager to go gangsta and shut down all the coal fired plants.

Note that Utah has a low rate, but just not the lowest in the country. Your bill is a combination of your consumption and your rate. Utah had the lowest average bill last year.
Quote: odiousgambit
I do think it is a big question what will happen to the planet should the entire world use fossil fuels like the US did 30 years ago. I do care about the impact people have, I hate some of what happens, even the extinction of large mammals, the first big environmental impact humans had thousands of years ago. Fossil fuels are dirty, it'd be nice to get away from that. But because I feel that way doesn't mean I want to live in a fantasy world ... I get a kick in a small way thinking about what Utah is doing here, in spite of all this


Quote: Stanford
The largest extinction in Earth's history marked the end of the Permian period, some 252 million years ago. Long before dinosaurs, our planet was populated with plants and animals that were mostly obliterated after a series of massive volcanic eruptions in Siberia.

Fossils in ancient seafloor rocks display a thriving and diverse marine ecosystem, then a swath of corpses. Some 96 percent of marine species were wiped out during the "Great Dying," followed by millions of years when life had to multiply and diversify once more.

What has been debated until now is exactly what made the oceans inhospitable to life – the high acidity of the water, metal and sulfide poisoning, a complete lack of oxygen, or simply higher temperatures.


The Great dying killed off 96% of the marine species.

The phrase “too cheap to meter” was used in a 1954 speech, so it is now 7 decades old. I just don't see how this can be done without nuclear power.

But I think we are only a few years away from mini-condos in California that can power your EV at night or in the winter, but have a switch so that the EV can power the condo during rolling blackouts and when time of use plans make it ridiculously expensive to buy power from the utility company.

SOCAL Edison now has a plan where you pay as high as 71 cents per kWh from 5pm to 8pm from June through September. The US average is 15 cents per kWh for December 2022 (10.54 cents per kWh in Utah).
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