Original Sin?

I hope you get better soon.

Quote: FrGamble

Islam is also a historical religion and I don't think any serious student of history doubts that there was indeed a person Muhammad, just like no one seriously doubts the historical person of Jesus of Nazareth existed.

I've no doubt Jesus existed. I've no doubt, either, he was just a man like tens of billions of other men who've lived before and since. I've also no doubt, either, that he remained dead after he died, again like uncounted billions before and since.

I cannot deny he inspired a new religion and a philosophical movement, if an unstructured one. That makes him unusual. In having convinced poeple he was divine, he may be unique.

Quote:

As s2dbaker would say, Read your Bible!

Several atheist groups claim a higher percentage of atheists than Christians have read the Bible, and that this expains why they are atheists.

Be careful what you wish for ;)

Quote: Nareed

I've no doubt Jesus existed. I've no doubt, either, he was just a man like tens of billions of other men who've lived before and since. I've also no doubt, either, that he remained dead after he died, again like uncounted billions before and since.

The number is just over 100 billion. How
many of them were smart enough to invent
anything useful. A few thousand at most.
How many were super model beautiful?
Not enough. How many were dumb as a
rock? Far too many. It's amazing we've come
as far as we have.

Quote: FrGamble

Ha! This peaceful campaign to convert the world is exactly what the Pope is calling for, it is called the "New Evangelization".

Fair point. However, this is something the Church has been doing since it was a church. A more concerted campaing, run from the Vatican and including agressive ads in the media the world over, mass protests, passive resistance against governments which pass laws you don't like, etc, would be out of the question.

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Obviously the content of the Gospel is the same but in connection to your point about changing with the culture there needs to be new methods, new agents, new expressions, and a new ardor if the love of Jesus Christ is to answer the hurt and pain of a world confused and frustrated by life.

I think you're side-stepping. Really. There is a long way from forcible conversions and conversions under threat of force, to "new methods." Or the acceptance of modern cosmology and biology. It's a far cry from keeping Galileo in permanent house arrest, to having actual priests engaged in physics research (something, BTW, other denominations should encourage, expecially in biology).

Thanks for the well wishes Nareed, I can't remember feeling more awful.

Quote: Evenbob

I believe
Jesus meant all the good stuff he said, why
does it matter if a lot of the mumbo jumbo
surrounding him is urban legend. Your
faith is based on what he said and what you
think that made him. What's the difference
if he performed some corny magic tricks or
not. It has nothing to do with anything.

What if I believed in fairy unicorns and talking rainbows? Even if it made me feel better it is not true and a lie. Wishful thinking is dangerous when not grounded in reality and I don't think it is very helpful for people. Faith needs to be reasonable and true if it is going to be a real benefit.
I know with certainty that Jesus Christ is true God and true man who came to set us free from our sins and open the way to eternal life. I know with certainty that He was Resurrected from the dead.

By the way if this post doesn't get s2dbaker to respond than he is gone for good, more's the pity.

Quote: FrGamble

Wishful thinking is dangerous when not grounded in reality and I don't think it is very helpful for people.

/sigh.

I'll have more, but for now... just that.

Feel better, FrG.

Quote: FrGamble

What if I believed in fairy unicorns and talking rainbows?

Because life has no purpose or point
other than consciousness being aware
in the universe, what difference would it
make.

I've said before, if you could adequately
reverse engineer any religion, you'd find
there's a reason, based on faulty logic,
for every single belief. But so what, it
doesn't matter until you start killing people
who don't share your life view. Then you've
gone to far with it.

Look at Buddha. There's an excellent chance
he never lived and is a total myth. Buddhists
don't care, it's what he supposedly taught
that matters. It's what Jesus taught that matters,
not all the whistles and bells surrounding him.

Quote: FrGamble

Thanks for the well wishes Nareed, I can't remember feeling more awful.

If it is the flu, get a doctor to do a test and see if tamiflu or one of the new flu drugs will work. My mom was feeling awful as well, and after getting the drug she got better inside of three days. In any case, hopefully it will pass soon.

Quote:

Faith needs to be reasonable and true if it is going to be a real benefit.
I know with certainty that Jesus Christ is true God and true man who came to set us free from our sins and open the way to eternal life. I know with certainty that He was Resurrected from the dead.

I'll pass on this one, because we're now just repeating arguments to little effect (ie none).

Quote: FrGamble

What if I believed in fairy unicorns and talking rainbows? Even if it made me feel better it is not true and a lie..

Wait…FrG, can you prove that fairy unicorns and talking rainbows do not exist…? And, if so, how…?

Quote: aceofspades

Wait…FrG, can you prove that fairy unicorns and talking rainbows do not exist…? And, if so, how…?

He's still trying to prove god exists, don't bother him.

Quote: Evenbob

The number is just over 100 billion.

The estimate of 100 billion is reasonable if you include all the billions of births that ended in infancy. Although population levels were very low before the time of Jesus, birth rates (and infant death rates) were much higher than today. Also the time period is much longer possibly extending well over 100,000 years for anatomical modern humans and some 50,000 years ago for behaviourally modern humans.

At some point in the 1970s (world population reached 4 billion in 1974) somebody made a ridiculous statement. Some versions of this widely circulating rumor claim that 75 percent of all people ever born are currently alive. For some unknown reason this statement had a long shelf life (probably because most people can't make even simple estimates).

Possibly 40% to 50% of the humans who ever lived were before the time of Jesus. Even allowing for the rate of intense evangelism, we have to concede that a majority of the humans who ever lived have never heard of Jesus.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, before the Resurrection, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam and Eve, and all the righteous were in the Limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum) where they remained until "in his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him" (CCC 637).

But that still leaves tens of billions of people left over.

Just an observation.