Tolerance

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December 30th, 2014 at 7:05:57 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18212
Quote: zippyboy
The Story of Adam and Steve?


Adam and Steve; Adam, Eve, and Jane; Adam, Eve, and the harem that Eve is Queen Bee over, you name it. Anything other than one man/one woman,
The President is a fink.
December 30th, 2014 at 8:59:49 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: AZDuffman
I would say with pretty good certainty that marriage came before property rights. Consider that it existed hundreds of years before the concept of deeding property. Some form of it goes back to when the Bible was written as the Story of Creation places one man and one woman together. If this was not the practice at the writing then we would not have a story of just Adam and Eve but Adam something else.

BTW: Dower interest protects the female, not the male.


I only mentioned the statement because IIRC the topic has come up before over at the wov. I truly have no idea how, or when the marriage custom came about?

It [marriage] seems to have turned into an industry, similar to what Christmas has become.

I used "property" in the sense of possesion as would be animals or tools or spears, some type of possesion. Maybe a poor word choice?

It just seems to me that in this day and age that a "contract" with time limits would be more appropriate. Those things that each person believes are implied at the ceremony that are soon discovered to be incorrect, both parties would be better served in a contract form. None of this bullcrap of for richer or poorer, till death to us part stuff. It all to often doesn't work out that way. Instead of the misery of a divorce, the couple could just let the contract expire, no fuss no muss. If people want to get married, fine with me [I am]. The only legal enforcement of the vows is the property division when the partners realize reality. My .02

I also firmly believe future partners should live together first, I think for two years min. optimally. And communicate what their expectations are and how important each item is. The heck with this discovery after the fact stuff. I am also against "joint checking". or joint credit [cards]. I don't believe that the partners can be equals. Someone will be the dominant one. Someone has coined these surprises in other terms such as "wonders", boy that can work out to be a misnomer.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
December 30th, 2014 at 9:46:52 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18212
Quote: petroglyph


It just seems to me that in this day and age that a "contract" with time limits would be more appropriate. Those things that each person believes are implied at the ceremony that are soon discovered to be incorrect, both parties would be better served in a contract form. None of this bullcrap of for richer or poorer, till death to us part stuff. It all to often doesn't work out that way. Instead of the misery of a divorce, the couple could just let the contract expire, no fuss no muss. If people want to get married, fine with me [I am]. The only legal enforcement of the vows is the property division when the partners realize reality. My .02


I have seen this discussed off and on for years. You run into problems where property is involved. For example, here in PA married coupled own real property "By the Entireties" which means they own it together or as I sometimes say, their "marriage owns it." IOW, Barrack and Michelle Obama own the property up the road in this manner, Barrack cannot sell me "his half." Now if a marriage simply "expires" and I sue Barrack I cannot take just "his half." This is one example. Tax liabilities come into play. Lots of things. We have "no-fault" divorce, that is good enough IMHO. Some things like marriages and corporations are forever for good reasons.

(Note to readers: The above is not meant to be political, when I discuss real property I virtually always use Presidents and former Presidents and their wives for examples. Makes it easier for trainee abstractors to follow.)

Quote:
I also firmly believe future partners should live together first, I think for two years min. optimally. And communicate what their expectations are and how important each item is. The heck with this discovery after the fact stuff. I am also against "joint checking". or joint credit [cards]. I don't believe that the partners can be equals. Someone will be the dominant one. Someone has coined these surprises in other terms such as "wonders", boy that can work out to be a misnomer.


Hey, I read divorces and if you do not thank whomever is your personal god that you have not seen what I have seen. That being said, I doubt a pre-marital "break-in" period would matter much. Some people grow apart after years, like the friends you had in high school and now wonder why you were ever friends. Some are immature when they marry on a whim. Some think it is all you see on "Happy Days." As to no "joint" stuff, to each his own. Many people last 50 years or more with no issues.
The President is a fink.
December 30th, 2014 at 11:10:09 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: AZDuffman
Quote: petroglyph



Quote:
Hey, I read divorces and if you do not thank whomever is your personal god that you have not seen what I have seen.
I do thank God, or I try to everyday. I'm starting to get a bit forgetful. There is no one that knows the two of us very long that doesn't feel the need to point out how lucky I was to "hook-up" with my wife. I can only agree with them.

After getting a divorce, there were those that were willing to physically try and stop me from getting re-married . If I did not, the way I saw it, it would be a lie. Honesty has always meant a great deal to me. I look at my wife sometimes as my reward for what I went through the first time. I, like 38% of males, would not leave my kids until they were grown. That's my sad story, and even that is a fading memory. It is wonderful now, and I feel blessed every day.

ps; we have joint everything including advanced medical directives. When it is good, it is the promise fulfilled, the only way I can imagine it any better is to imagine it longer. But I don't see this happening for most.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
December 30th, 2014 at 2:38:05 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: rxwine
Since no one objected, I must not of been clear in my meaning.


I think I get it. If I want someone to be tolerant of, I dunno, interracial marriage, that doesn't mean I have to also be tolerant of the KKK in return. There are limits, or should be, anyways. If that's what you were saying, I get it, and I agree.

But these people who I'm referring to... just drive me nuts.

Nareed had asked how I treat the people I claim to be biased against. And perhaps that's the difference - I greet them the same as I do anyone else. A greeting, a welcome, a shake of hands, whatever the situation decrees. And I have certainly "hung out" with city folk, and I've had pleasurable conversations with them, and some I've even had an overall "great time" with. Perhaps that makes me not a bigot, I dunno. I was just using the example to show we all have prejudices and stereotypes and some level of bigotry, and THAT'S OK.

I think that might be what my big issue is. Maybe it's just the hypocrisy. Like prejudice, everyone's a hypocrite. Look hard enough and you'll find your own. And that's OK, too. But there's a certain level where it's not, and the people I'm griping about take it to a whole new, undiscovered level.

I do think that's it. Because they promote themselves as a paragon of fair treatment. I can see it clear as day the way they manipulate the character they put out to the public. The one, in addition to being a queen of propriety, is also a grammar Nazi. That's fine, I'm one, too. And to her credit, she does correct tactfully, often doing so using cutesy emoticons or comments. But when she's not directly correcting and just discussing it, she blows everything she claims to stand for out of the water.

Because improper grammar use makes you look stupid. It's lazy. It's "dirty". It's the 21st century, we're modern people, and you SHOULD USE PROPER GRAMMAR! On and on she'll go, and she does have a point.

But, these "stupid people" she rails against, what about them? Granted, there are people who are just too lazy to learn. They don't care. And that's not good. But some, and I know at least one, didn't have time for grammar. While this girl was free to learn and absorb and work with mom around the kitchen table to make extra certain she knew here theres from her theirs, this kid was just trying to find somewhere to stay, somewhere to have dinner, somewhere to HIDE, because dad's home on a bender and all he's gonna find around the kitchen table is a beating.

I guess it's hip to be a white girl with black friends. It's trendy to be all the rage at all the gay hot spots. It's "super cool" to reach out to your Muslim peers. But the kid you grew up with is "stupid" because he doesn't know how to conjugate, and it's OK to beat him to hell and back because... ???

And she doesn't see it. That might offend me most of all.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 30th, 2014 at 7:05:18 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Face
Nareed had asked how I treat the people I claim to be biased against. And perhaps that's the difference - I greet them the same as I do anyone else. A greeting, a welcome, a shake of hands, whatever the situation decrees. And I have certainly "hung out" with city folk, and I've had pleasurable conversations with them, and some I've even had an overall "great time" with. Perhaps that makes me not a bigot, I dunno.


I do know: you're not.

A prejudice is not bigotry if you don't act on it. Acceptance means treating people right, even when you're prejudiced against them.

Quote:
I was just using the example to show we all have prejudices and stereotypes and some level of bigotry, and THAT'S OK.


Asimov tells how he used to be accosted by astrology enthusiasts at Mensa meetings and events (BTW this proves the limitations of IQ as a measure of intelligence or rationality). Often he was accused of bigotry, because he dismissed astrology without having "studied" it. He would answer (quoting from memory) "Being human I suppose I have some bigotry in me. I carefully expend it on astrology, lest I apply it to something important."
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
December 31st, 2014 at 12:31:49 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25011
Quote: Nareed
Asimov tells how he used to be accosted by astrology enthusiasts at Mensa meetings and events (BTW this proves the limitations of IQ as a measure of intelligence or rationality).


IQ mostly measures the ability to learn,
not what you've learned so far. You may
be really smart and have learned a bunch
of crap. Like astrology. There were people
in the Middle Ages with genius IQ's. The
problem was, they learned everything they
knew from the Church. Uh oh..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 31st, 2014 at 3:03:07 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
Acceptance means treating people right, even when you're prejudiced against them.


El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz.
December 31st, 2014 at 6:29:33 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz.


Let's not bring up a dictator's clichés. Benito had little respect for the property rights of the church.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
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