Priest is Father, Padre. Really?

While there have been many miracles attributed to prayer and the above studies about does prayer work or not are interesting we seem to be missing the main point. What is prayer? Petitions or intercessions are only a small part of what prayer is or how one prays. Prayer is really a response to God who loves us and wants a relationship with us. This discussion seems to make it look like prayer is always asking for something and the assumption is that if the person doesn't get better or there is no miracle then prayer doesn't work. I disagree. If prayer is about getting to know the love of God in our lives and our attempt to respond to that love then I wonder if we can change the very practical definition of effectiveness we have been working with. A good question to ask those who are praying themselves or having others pray for them is, did you feel closer to God and filled with hope during your illness?

Quote: FrGamble

Prayer is really a response to God who loves us and wants a relationship with us.

100% Wrong. You want a relationship with
the god you invented, not the other way
around. So you pretend there is one, you
go out of your way pretending god is
listening and wants to be your buddy.

Look at all the people in your Church
who cried out over the centuries, 'Oh
got, where are you. I pray and pray and
you never show your face.'

I know damn well you know what I'm
talking about.

When I show that you are 100% wrong I usually back it up with facts and somewhat coherent arguments (see my response to your OP). Can I ask you to do the same?

I don't know what you are talking about by the way. The Psalms are beautifully honest prayers like the one Jesus prays on the cross, but I'm not sure I really know what you are talking about or why you are so upset.

Quote: FrGamble

When I show that you are 100% wrong I usually back it up with facts and somewhat coherent arguments (see my response to your OP). Can I ask you to do the same?
.

You want me to back up the fact that
god doesn't exist to want a relationship
with you in the first place? How do I
prove something doesn't exist. The proof
that he does exist is on you, and all you
can come up with is, it says so in the Bible.

You invent a god, then you invent that
he wants a relationship with you. This
adds a convenient layer to the god theory;
not only does he exist, but he's jonsing
to get to know you. This is much like the
Santa myth. Not only does he exist, he
wants to hear from you and needs to know
what you want for Xmas. This is why kids
believe the myth, it personally involves
them.

This is what you hope to happen when you
say a mythical god wants to know you. It
personally involves the person you're talking
to, and can be quite compelling if the person
is naive.

Well the substantial evidence that points to God's existence has been talked about many times already on many threads. The idea that you need mathematical proof to believe something has also been shown to be ridiculous at different times on the forum. I rarely quote from the Bible, because you don't need to in order to demonstrate God's existence and if you did it would become your favorite circular type of argument.

Jesus Christ is not invented, He is a real historical person who has transformed the world. His followers were transformed and sent out into the world with superhuman courage because of the Resurrection event. They had a real experience with the living Lord Jesus and a relationship of trust and prayer with Him that billions of people have shared throughout the millennia, including myself. A relationship that has truly changed myself and others to recognize our dignity and the equal dignity in every human life, as a child of God. It is a longing and hope in every human being that there is more to life, that there is a God, that we are loved and worthy of love, that we will live forever, that our hope for something better, for justice, and perfection is real. Why would you reject all of this without any evidence or arguments to counter the multitude of reasons to believe God exists, loves you, and wants to be in a relationship with you?

Quote: FrGamble

Well the substantial evidence that points to God's existence has been talked about many times already on many threads.

It has been much ado about nothing ;)

Quote: FrGamble

the multitude of reasons to believe God exists, loves you, and wants to be in a relationship with you?

There are no credible reasons or there would
be no atheists. You think there is a god because
you need to believe there is, plain and simple.

I do not, so I don't. If your made up god wants
to have a relationship with you, go for it. They
lock people up for having relationships with
imaginary friends, unless it's called religion.
No difference in reality, just semantics.

I'd settle for physical proof as well as mathematical proof. Maybe even just an interview on TV.

Quote: Evenbob

There are no credible reasons or there would
be no atheists.

Ah, if only people let reason rule their wills it would be a different world.

What do they call someone who thinks they know everything and that there is nothing outside of their knowledge that exists and anyone who thinks different then them is crazy? I would say that person is at the very least rude.

Quote: FrGamble

Ah, if only people let reason rule their wills it would be a different world.

There would be a lot more atheists for sure. Religion
hates reason, I'm suprised it's not one of the seven
deadly sins.

Quote: FrGamble

What do they call someone who thinks they know everything and that there is nothing outside of their knowledge that exists and anyone who thinks different then them is crazy? .

A Christian? That certainly describes some
fundamentalists I know.