Clue: Accusations

In game 2, I decided I didn't want to make an accusation on my turn, then realized I was going out of turn to say whether or not I wanted to make an accusation.

arggghhh! That kind of stuff is just getting too complicated!

The unforeseen problem has been that the original rules allow a player to make a suggestion followed by an immediate accusation. That works fine when all are sitting around a table playing the game.

In our games, trying to keep this rule has meant problems. I will list what I think are some fixes, with what I see as the downsides, and we can discuss this. I'd like to have a new rule in place for game 3 . I won't make this a poll as somebody else might have a better idea.

*option, adherence to original game rule: play like we have been, but an accusation must be immediate: Downside: a player makes a suggestion, but the process of proof/disproof happens hours later when the player is not around and maybe won't be for a considerable time after that. To avoid this, the player would have to make sure the non-player is also immediately available. I suppose that would work, but there would be more delay. And players would be making the mistake of not realizing they need to do this.

*possible new rule: a player can't make an accusation on the same turn as a suggestion. Downside: the suggestion could give so much information that the solution is at hand, so that player winds up in a fix, allowing another player to easily win perhaps. You might call it Cut-throat Clue.

*possible new rule: a player can't make an accusation on the same turn as a suggestion unless he tells the other players he will do so at the time of the suggestion; this would have to be binding. Downside: the player would have to be really sure, so the problem of the prior possible new rule above actually would still be there.

*possible new rule: play like we have been, but no one is to make a new suggestion until the accusation option period of the previous player expires. Downside: doesn't change the problem and adds more delay. The rule could come into play after x number of rounds, which would help.

*possible new rule: [from rxwine] The fiendish counter rule: let people delay their accusation if they wish, but only as long as no one after them decides to make an accusation. In other words, if BBB made an accusation, Mustard, White and Green all forfeit their accusation until their next actual turn. Downside: [as I see it] this basically means you don't have to wait till your turn to make an accusation. Not a bad idea, I'm not totally against this, but would want to combine it with the 24 hour rule or some other expiration period.

Please discuss.

I agree a rule modification is needed. How about this one:

The first three rounds the player may make a suggestion or accusation on his turn, but not both (to save time). Otherwise:

A player normally has one hour (for example) to make an accusation after a suggestion has been responded to.
A player may also make an accusation beyond the one hour point if no other player has made a suggestion.
A player may also declare in advance his intention to make an accusation, which will be binding, in which case it will be expected timely after the suggestion.
A player will make more than an hour (perhaps eight) if he makes a suggestion that nobody can disprove.

One hour is tricky with timezones, but otherwise this sort of plan makes sense with a bit more time involved (if you got the denial at 11pm, but were asleep, it'd be nice to have until the next evening to make the accusation now you have all the info you need).

A suggestion that goes all the way around shouldn't buy any more time. It's either enough info to accuse now or not (it's normally easier from that info to work something out than a denied suggestion)... it's a good trigger to move from the accuse or suggest model you made above though.

I am at least thinking we should cut back on the 24 hours. 12 hours? somebody ready to make an accusation ought to be able to be ready to check in frequently ... or make a special pleading

Hmmm. I liked the way we worked it out on a move, where I could move and let the game continue, but reserved the right to an accusation should anyone ahead of me exercise theirs. Had none of them done so (Green did), I would not have accused either. So I think that's a good solution subset for that part of the problem.

I think in the first 3 rounds, a person should be able to make an accusation after a suggestion has gone around, but they should have a very short time frame (ie 1 hour) after their suggestion's been processed (either none or PM's sent). The default position is that no one will be ready to accuse and the game needn't pause for it. If someone's that close, then it seems fair to ask them to monitor closely enough to catch the PM when it comes out.

Starting with round 4, a person should be asked to declare whether they may make an accusation pending the result of their suggestion, NON-binding, or should respond when they receive the PM whether they will accuse at that time. If there is a "NONE" result of a suggestion, the game should wait until that person has accused or declared that they will not. I think 12 hours stoppage from NONE announced would be sufficient.

And a person moving into the hallway should not be waited on to make an accusation, unless someone ahead of them has one pending, as happened above; default is no accusation reserved unless new information is received via an earlier player's accusation.

To some extent, there will have to be an honor system if the game is to proceed, I think. It's conceivable that new information will be received through a later suggestion that informs an accusation in reserve. At that point, it's only a game.

All JMHO.

"At that point, it's only a game." Only a game? Bah! :D

Quote: TheCesspit

"At that point, it's only a game." Only a game? Bah! :D

Heh heh heh heh ha!

The only major problem is time. The time it takes to get the disprove info. I could write a program that fully automates this, but it would have some limitations. Mainly on what card to show if there is more than one. I believe in the last game this only occurred 4 times. Allowing custom ordering should solve this.

Quote: Wizard

I agree a rule modification is needed. How about this one:

The first three rounds the player may make a suggestion or accusation on his turn, but not both (to save time).

I think everyone can see something similar should be implemented and I like this and I think 3 rounds is about right

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A player normally has one hour (for example) to make an accusation after a suggestion has been responded to.

I think it should be more than an hour, but we need to ditch 24 hours. Somebody ready to make an acc. should just, well, be ready LOL

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A player may also make an accusation beyond [this] ... point if no other player has made a suggestion.

I'm OK with this, but it needs to be his/her turn IMO, so a move by the next player of any kind should trump that ability [but an agreed on time period allowance, not expired, trumps all]

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A player may also declare in advance his intention to make an accusation, which will be binding, in which case it will be expected timely after the suggestion.

you'd still have to allow for a time period if the player doesn't get all info [complete responses] to his sugg. right away

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A player will make more than an hour (perhaps eight) if he makes a suggestion that nobody can disprove.

I agree with cesspit that this should not buy more time for his reasons he gave.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Hmmm. I liked the way we worked it out on a move, where I could move and let the game continue, but reserved the right to an accusation should anyone ahead of me exercise theirs. Had none of them done so (Green did), I would not have accused either. So I think that's a good solution subset for that part of the problem.

I think we can all see this is only fair

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I think in the first 3 rounds, a person should be able to make an accusation after a suggestion has gone around

I like Wizard's idea better, if someone has the solution odds are nobody else does; we also need to bear in mind we can't come up with some rule that is perfect for all scenarios. If there are only 3 players maybe it should only be 2 rounds

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Starting with round 4, a person should be asked to declare whether they may make an accusation pending the result of their suggestion, NON-binding,

I think binding is better. Maybe each player could have one Mulligan

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or should respond when they receive the PM whether they will accuse at that time. If there is a "NONE" result of a suggestion, the game should wait until that person has accused or declared that they will not. I think 12 hours stoppage from NONE announced would be sufficient.

well, I gave my differing opinion aligned with cesspit, however, generally 12 hours works for me

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And a person moving into the hallway should not be waited on to make an accusation, unless someone ahead of them has one pending, as happened above; default is no accusation reserved unless new information is received via an earlier player's accusation.

we adopted this last game and it should be the rule in the new game IMO

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To some extent, there will have to be an honor system if the game is to proceed, I think. It's conceivable that new information will be received through a later suggestion that informs an accusation in reserve. At that point, it's only a game.

when this first came up I hadn't thought about it, but OK, let's do honor system on that.

Quote: miplet

I could write a program that fully automates this, but it would have some limitations. Mainly on what card to show if there is more than one. I believe in the last game this only occurred 4 times. Allowing custom ordering should solve this.

I'd be impressed if there was no way a player could accidentally access the wrong box [or however that would work].