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Sanders’s Nordic-style policies might sound nice, but..
| March 20th, 2016 at 6:01:53 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/ I thought this article would be of some interest.
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| March 20th, 2016 at 6:58:07 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18212 |
I am glad you were satisfied there. But the problem is most of the time taxes do not give you top-notch services. Most government services around the world are awful. Prime example in the USA is the VA. Government run health care and it gets terrible results. I have lived in states where you have to wait in line to register a car because the DMV is where you have to go. Here in PA independent notaries perform this service. 99% of the time you can walk in and be first in line. If you do have to wait it is just a few people and just because you all went there at the same time, an unusual rush. Last 2 transactions I had took all of 15 minutes each in to out. Nordic countries keep getting put up by the Sanders-types about how socialism "can" work. But they have for some reason become some kind of exception. On the other side of the continent, Greece has lots of services and is near collapse. It could be studied, but I would say it is a combination of a homogeneous culture, population dense around just a few areas, and a relatively isolated location minimizing the need for military spending. That is a guess of course and even if there was a study to prove one or another would be impossible since it cannot be tested. Other than socialized medicine, I am curious what services the government offers that save time and money. The President is a fink. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 7:01:12 AM permalink | |
| terapined Member since: Aug 6, 2014 Threads: 73 Posts: 11804 | Thanks a lot for this post Pacomartin +1 I totally agree I dream of a Nordic style America Go Bernie Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World" |
| March 20th, 2016 at 7:28:57 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
My post was a quote from the author of the article. I have visited Sweden as my brother lived there for several years. My experience there was somewhat mixed. It was excruciatingly expensive. I wanted to go to the equivalent of a K-mart and purchase some warm clothing, and I couldn't find one. Drinks in a small city were the same price as I was used to paying in Manhattan. I met a Hungarian doctor who had escaped to Sweden in the 1980's. He said at the time after a lifetime of indoctrination against USA he felt he had to escape to a neutral country. He regretted it every day as he felt he would have been very successful in America and he was frustrated at how he was limited by Swedish nationalized medicine. It seemed like people there did a lot of grumbling about what we call "the nanny state". I went to Finland for only one day, so I don't have a lot of opinions except that it seemed more like America in the 1960's. I was born in 1957 so I don't have an adult memories of the 1960's, but men in particular seemed kind of hippyish. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 8:02:51 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 | Comparing any of the Nordic countries to the US is apples to bananas. They don't have huge populations, they don't have huge non working non contributing minorities, they don't have huge military spending, they don't have people pouring in across open borders by the thousands every day. Comparing them to the US is like isolating a county of Amish in PA, and marveling at how well they all do economically and how they all take care of each other and wondering why the whole country can't be like that. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 8:34:49 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18212 |
Sorry, I took it as you saying it.
This is indeed what the Bernie supporters just do not get. A higher standard of living has to be paid for one way or another. A big reason that it is so expensive over there is the VAT. I might support a VAT here if and only if the right of the government to collect an income tax was constitutionally repealed. VATs are sneaky, clipping you at every level. But they do insure everyone pays a fair share. Americans are too consumerish to have a nordic system, among other reasons. The President is a fink. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 9:09:52 AM permalink | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Sweden has been a safe haven for investors from the Euro zone because the interest rates are higher. In an effort to control inflation Sweden has pushed their policy interest rate first to zero and now into negative numbers. The ECB has now followed by dropping their rate to zero percent. Sweden has been passive about the reduction in their cash supply in many cases thinking it makes life much more convenient to go to all electronic transactions. But now with the possibility of banks charging fees to make up for the negative interest rates that they are paying to the central bank, there is greatly reduced amounts of cash. Now that Euro-zone is entering zero interest rates (possibly negative in the future), the end of free checking accounts (or interest bearing) is being threatened. At the same time Mario Draghi (president of ECB) is seriously considering calling in the 500 Euro banknotes which constitute 28.8% of the circulating cash (by value). The 500 Euro note is worth roughly the same as the 1000 Deutschmark and the 1000 Dutch Guilder banknotes and a little more than the 5000 Austrian Schilling note. Sweden used to have a 10,000 SEK banknote which would be worth over 1,000 Euros today, but they terminated it in 1991. Zero and negative interest rates have their effect reduced by having too much cash available. But it is thought that the Nordic culture allows them to operate with less currency (even though historically they had more cash than Continental Europe given their wealth). UK, USA, and Canada are still operating with central bank interest rates of +0.5% ( Australia at 2%) so they haven't quite given people the desire to run to cash in huge numbers. So I don't know if Anglo world will follow Europe in limiting cash.
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| March 20th, 2016 at 9:13:17 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18212 |
I think you mean "to control deflation. We may be in a once-every-50-years shift in how monetary policy works, but I have commented on that in another thread. The President is a fink. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 9:23:16 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 |
Precisely. Now they would be spent for services to zillions of refugees. Its nice to have free Sauna in the middle of downtown, clean quick transportation, good schools, free university, etc. but it does make for two requirements. Starting by eliminating the parasites and eliminating incentives for ultra high incomes that just result in ultra high taxes. I'm an expert too, I've read Nordic Noir mystery novels. |
| March 20th, 2016 at 9:30:38 AM permalink | |
| beachbumbabs Member since: Sep 3, 2013 Threads: 6 Posts: 1600 | Looks like you have an extra "col" in there after you closed the "table". Interesting effect, no? Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has |