wind energy without windmills
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:18:54 AM permalink | |
reno Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 58 Posts: 1384 |
Actually, I think the phrase you're looking for is "easier said than done."
Apparently it ain't easy to generate usable electricity from wind and water droplets. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Coal's not coming back, given the current expansion of fracking and large natural gas deposits. Gas is a much cleaner fuel, it's cheaper, it's easier to handle and transport. Simple point: how many households or buildings use coal as a fuel anymore? And how long since its use in homes and buildings was phased out? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:44:41 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
That too. Every so often there's a new release about a revolutionary new technology that will change the world, eliminate pollution, and do your taxes at a fraction of the cost of current options (does 9999/10000 count as a fraction? <w>). Most often such stories die in a few days. Sometimes, though, they take on life, generate buzz, and even lead to actual prototypes, before realistic cost estimates and actual performance figures say otherwise. remember fuel cells? Hydrogen cars? Hydrogen fuel cells? Then there's nuclear fusion. That would be great, perhaps. The fuel is plentiful and we'll never run out. But. 1) It may not even be possible to set up a self-sustaining nuclear fusion reaction. the ones we know occur in the cores of stars. 2) While the largest byproduct of hydrogen fusion is non-radioactive, non-polluting Helium, there are some radioactive byproducts. Further, the reactor itself should slowly grow radioactive as well. 3) a joke circulating in the 70s had it that fusion is always just fifty years away. That was forty years ago. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:06:12 PM permalink | |
stinkingliberal Member since: Nov 9, 2016 Threads: 17 Posts: 731 | I'm surprised that solar power is taking so long to be widespread. In the US, we've got huge expanses of unused land out in the desert. Lots of sun, nobody wants it. There are three, I believe soon to be five, massive solar plants on the CA side of the border near Primm. Each is capable at full capacity of supplying the needs of a city of 250,000 people. No pollution, easy to operate, existing technology. Why are we even thinking of firing up the coal plants again? |
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:28:18 PM permalink | |
AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18212 |
One because the cost of solar is still not competitive. Two because of this thing called night. The President is a fink. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:33:10 PM permalink | |
stinkingliberal Member since: Nov 9, 2016 Threads: 17 Posts: 731 |
One, the operating costs of solar plants are much lower than those of other types of generating plants, so any greater construction costs would be made up in time. You don't have to fill train carloads with sunlight and transport them to the generation site. Two, the fact that they can't operate for 24 hours doesn't make them any less useful. Once built, the energy they produce is pretty much a free lunch. That's better than having to continually dig coal or oil out of the ground and transport it to the plant to be burned. Three, solar plants have virtually no emissions. If you understand the concept of negative externalities, you also understand that emissions are a cost that someone has to pay. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:35:57 PM permalink | |
AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18212 |
Please cite a source for operating costs per kWh. I will say it again. If the cost was competitive there would be no subsidies or quotas. The President is a fink. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 3:38:02 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Really? Why? Wall Street Message to US Solar Companies: It's the Profitability, Stupid! http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/09/wall-street-s-loud-and-clear-message-to-us-solar-companies-it-s-the-profitability-stupid.html If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 4:22:13 PM permalink | |
stinkingliberal Member since: Nov 9, 2016 Threads: 17 Posts: 731 |
Your thinking is old re subsidies, quotas, etc. Those indeed got the industry started more than two decades ago. Now, however, it's being driven simply by being a good investment, as economies of scale have kicked in: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels In order to make a valid operating cost comparison, you have to factor in cost of fuel and cost of carbon emissions. Since Republicans don't believe in carbon emissions, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what the operating cost of a coal plant really is. So if you're a climate change denier, or you discount the effects of air and water pollution, the cost of carbon emissions is zero. The cost of extracting and transporting fossil fuels also has to be taken into account. See the "full report" from the link on this website. http://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm If you go to table 1b, the cost per Mwh for various energy generation technologies for plants entering service in 2022 (which is about when a plant that starts construction now would go online). Coal is $139.50. Solar is $84.70. (Use the before-tax-credit comparison.) Furthermore, costs for carbon emissions are not calculated in this report, but they are estimated for coal generation to be approximately $70 per Mwh, making the cost of coal-generated power about 2 1/2 times that of solar. Whether or not you happen to believe in pollution and global warming. |
December 2nd, 2016 at 4:37:44 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 | Wall Street Message to US Solar Companies: It's the Profitability, Stupid! http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/09/wall-street-s-loud-and-clear-message-to-us-solar-companies-it-s-the-profitability-stupid.html If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |