wind energy without windmills

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December 2nd, 2016 at 4:50:40 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 108
Posts: 8078
Quote: stinkingliberal
Your thinking is old re subsidies, quotas, etc. Those indeed got the industry started more than two decades ago. Now, however, it's being driven simply by being a good investment, as economies of scale have kicked in:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

In order to make a valid operating cost comparison, you have to factor in cost of fuel and cost of carbon emissions. Since Republicans don't believe in carbon emissions, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what the operating cost of a coal plant really is. So if you're a climate change denier, or you discount the effects of air and water pollution, the cost of carbon emissions is zero.

The cost of extracting and transporting fossil fuels also has to be taken into account.

See the "full report" from the link on this website. http://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm

If you go to table 1b, the cost per Mwh for various energy generation technologies for plants entering service in 2022 (which is about when a plant that starts construction now would go online). Coal is $139.50. Solar is $84.70. (Use the before-tax-credit comparison.)

Furthermore, costs for carbon emissions are not calculated in this report, but they are estimated for coal generation to be approximately $70 per Mwh, making the cost of coal-generated power about 2 1/2 times that of solar. Whether or not you happen to believe in pollution and global warming.


There is no cost to carbon emissions. Just shakedowns for a non existent problem.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
December 2nd, 2016 at 5:01:47 PM permalink
stinkingliberal
Member since: Nov 9, 2016
Threads: 17
Posts: 731
Quote: AZDuffman
There is no cost to carbon emissions. Just shakedowns for a non existent problem.


Well, I kind of thought that you would retreat into fantasyland as a climate change denier. But look at the figures without taking carbon emissions into account. Solar still is much cheaper.

Also, the chart assumes that fuel for the plant has already been delivered and is readily available. That's the case with solar, but not with coal. The costs of extracting and delivering coal weren't taken into account, and if they were, solar would come out even further ahead.

Facts are a bitch when they contradict beliefs.
June 6th, 2017 at 1:09:51 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2933
Never liked a design that fry's migratory birds anyway. https://www.wired.com/2016/05/huge-solar-plant-caught-fire-thats-least-problems/
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
March 15th, 2018 at 4:55:01 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2933
Insurance now available for wind projects that don't produce as expected. https://www.windpowerengineering.com/business-news-projects/risky-business-mitigating-threats-onshore-wind-projects-portfolios/

"Underperformance
The U.S. “wind drought” of 2015, in which some of the lowest wind speeds in history were recorded in key markets such as California and Texas, alerted the industry to the necessity of protecting project revenue against underperformance"

"Tip: Over the last five years, GCube has seen an average of 5,000 annual incidents of blade and gearbox failures. While gearbox failures typically result in losses of around $200,000 to $300,000, blade failures can cost up to $1 million to resolve. Hence, do your homework. Use quality components"


Is there one windmill out there that produces what it says on the nameplate? I don't believe there is.

It's only tax dollars that make them spin.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
March 15th, 2018 at 5:08:13 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 108
Posts: 8078
Quote: petroglyph

"Underperformance
The U.S. “wind drought” of 2015, in which some of the lowest wind speeds in history were recorded in key markets such as California and Texas, alerted the industry to the necessity of protecting project revenue against underperformance"


Will the Mark Baums of the world buy the insurance with no windmills of their own if this gets competitive?
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 15th, 2018 at 5:36:39 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2933
Quote: AZDuffman
Will the Mark Baums of the world buy the insurance with no windmills of their own if this gets competitive?
I think he will short them and buy water company's.

Those wind farms are a monumental joke.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
March 16th, 2018 at 2:25:16 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 108
Posts: 8078
Quote: petroglyph
I think he will short them and buy water company's.


I think that is what Burry is buying.

Quote:
Those wind farms are a monumental joke.


Same as Tesla, it is a way to get the feds to pay for your product.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 16th, 2018 at 1:08:11 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 6043
Wind farms generate tax breaks and noise, they also generate energy but its unpredictable and really has to be fed to a battery to be useful but most wind farms are far from energy users and those unsightly turbines don't really seem attractive to anyone but a cpa.

All these new exciting discoveries seem to suffer from scale up problems and energy is always a question of generation and transport.

Coal is dead and won't come back. True but any forum member who goes to West Virginia and utters that sentiment won't be coming back alive.

A sail powered Junk rigged freighter would be a great money maker. Been on the drawing boards for over a hundred years. No one done it yet though.
March 16th, 2018 at 2:44:41 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 108
Posts: 8078
Quote: Fleastiff

Coal is dead and won't come back. True but any forum member who goes to West Virginia and utters that sentiment won't be coming back alive.


In decline, yes. Dead? Hardly.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 16th, 2018 at 2:59:51 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 118
Posts: 14601
Quote: Fleastiff
Coal is dead


Really? 730 million tons produced
last year, with WY mining more
than the next 8 closest states
combined. 300 million tons. It's
not even almost dead, it's still
going strong and getting stronger.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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