Cashlessness and the Mark of the Beast

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February 21st, 2017 at 8:32:51 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8887
Quote: Fleastiff
Either way I don't think this 'mark of the beast' stuff is sufficiently widespread as to provide any sort of incentive or disincentive.


A google search on : "mark of the beast" "cashless society" yielded About 46,600 results
February 22nd, 2017 at 7:10:26 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11750
Quote: Pacomartin
Replacing the 1.37 trillion pesos in circulation of which 78% is 500 and 1000MXN banknotes with US banknotes would be very expensive and politically risky.


Now, yes. Later, if hyperinflation makes a comeback, not so much.


Quote:
Besides theoretically only the remittances from the 6.5 million illegal Mexican in the USA are in danger of not being able to use legitimate channels..


The very poor results and lawsuits that would come from that, would make it almost worth it to get passed.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
February 22nd, 2017 at 7:49:40 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5134
Quote: Pacomartin
A google search on : "mark of the beast" "cashless society" yielded About 46,600 results
46,500 when I did it but as they say Numeric Stability Becomes Unimportant When You Are Guessing.

I noted that many of google hits were Bible Thumpers,Gold/Silver Sellers and Survivalist sites. That is akin to many hits on abortion being Catholic churches. Its to be expected; it doesn't mean anyone pays them the slightest attention. Many of the sites discussed the concept regarding countries where civilization and the economy is pretty much at the level of the dung beetle and utterly without relevance to the United States.
February 23rd, 2017 at 7:51:31 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8887
Quote: Nareed
Now, yes. Later, if hyperinflation makes a comeback, not so much.


Ecuador was motivated to switch to the dollar because of hyperinflation. El Salvador had a stable currency, but so much money was coming from remittances from the USA that they calculated that they were losing money by producing their own currency.

AFAIK, El Salvador has the greatest percentage of it's people living in the USA of any country in the world. IIt's an understandable result of decades of war.

Sweden did not get rid of it's 1000kr=US$111 banknote. It just reduced circulation figures from 48 million to just over 3 million. It would be comparable to the USA reducing circulation of it's $100 banknotes from 11.5 billion to under a billion notes.
March 27th, 2017 at 9:54:27 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 5134
March 27th, 2017 at 10:12:22 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8887
Quote: Fleastiff
Australia's bankers prepping computers for cashless society:


The article talks about "tap and pay" or contactless card payments. The article below cites the huge resistance in the USA to such payments.

Quote: WILL CONTACTLESS PAYMENT CARDS CATCH ON IN THE UNITED STATES?

In Australia, 66% of cardholders have a contactless card that allows them to tap and pay. Industry data reports that 53% of the Australian cardholders use their cards as tap and pay at least once a week. In Canada, 10 percent of all domestic transactions are contactless now and said to be growing at the rate of 1% per month.
....

In the U.S. there are already 2 million places you could tap your card today. Even after you subtract out the 400,000 terminals that are vending machines, that still leaves 5 times more POS terminals in the U.S. that can accept contactless cards. So why it is that no one is tapping their cards in the United States?

There are two key reasons. First, even though there is an estimated 1.6 million NFC-enabled POS terminals in the U.S., this represents a little more than 10% of the approximate 13.9 million POS terminals. This does not include the growing number of mPOS card-acceptance-devices. Second, the U.S. is a market in which there are 1.2 billion payments cards in circulation, issued by over 12,000 financial institutions. Contactless cards, by their very nature, are more expensive than non-contactless cards. Adding an EMV chip was an expense the issuers had to take on. But adding a contactless chip and antenna was an optional expense, one that issuers chose to forgo during this last massive wave of re-issue.

http://www.thepaymentsreview.com/will-contactless-payment-cards-catch-on-in-the-united-states


But this article is talking about using electronic means to pay for small purchases like lunch, ans businesses that simply no longer accept cash because it entails expenses in making change, guarding the cash register, depositing cash, etc.

Australia still has a fairly large amount of currency in circulation. More than Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom, or Saudi Arabia. It is still possible to stuff a $1000 in a home safe.

I don't mean to imply that it is illegal in Sweden to stuff a home safe, but with so little cash in circulation if large numbers of people started doing it, they would simply put hard limits on ATM withdrawals. In Greece it was not (at least initially) illegal to send cash out of the country, but people quickly emptied all the ATMs in the country.


Banknotes and coin in circulation (12/31/2015)
Per Capita in USD Country Billions of USD Percent of GDP
$9,213 Switzerland $76.31 11.76%
$6,739 Japan $856.55 19.44%
$6,550 Hong Kong SAR $47.98 15.51%
$4,911 Singapore $27.18 9.55%
$4,433 United States $1,424.92 7.90%
$3,571 Euro area $1,210.42 10.63%
$2,320 Australia $55.28 4.65%
$1,708 Saudi Arabia $52.99 8.20%
$1,641 Canada $58.78 4.08%
$1,583 United Kingdom $103.09 3.72%
$1,460 Korea $73.92 5.56%
$872 Sweden $8.59 1.73%
$800 Russia $117.05 10.56%
$599 Mexico $72.02 6.84%
$458 Turkey $36.06 5.37%
$282 Brazil $57.75 3.82%
$195 India $250.80 12.25%
$113 South Africa $6.15 2.39%
$1,558 Average/Total $4,535.84 8.92%

What they are talking about in Australia is something similar to what they are planning in South Korea
September 18th, 2017 at 9:41:00 AM permalink
reno
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 933
In light of the Equifax data breach, I want to discuss the opposite of a cashless lifestyle: how hard would it be to survive in the U.S. in 2017 using ONLY cash?

There's no way to prevent Transunion, Equifax, and Experien from spying on you. They're going to spy on you whether you like it or not, you have no say in the matter.

But what if there's nothing to spy on? What if you subsisted only on cash? Seems to me that this is basically impossible. You couldn't take out a car loan, home loan, or credit card. And without a credit card you couldn't buy an airplane ticket or rent a car, or check into a (nice) hotel. (Presumably a mom & pop motel might still accept cash.)

And even with no credit card, you'd still need a checking account and/or savings account so that you could cash checks and store your money safely. (I presume that Equifax collects data on checking accounts, is this correct?)
September 18th, 2017 at 9:53:32 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 7140
Quote: reno
But what if there's nothing to spy on? What if you subsisted only on cash? Seems to me that this is basically impossible. You couldn't take out a car loan, home loan, or credit card. And without a credit card you couldn't buy an airplane ticket or rent a car, or check into a (nice) hotel. (Presumably a mom & pop motel might still accept cash.)


Very difficult, but the unbanked do it all the time. Prepaid cards take care of a lot of things. You might need a deposit for utilities, but can pay that by money order. Many hotels will accept cash but you need a several hundred dollar deposit to cover it, or again a prepaid card. Cars pay cash or BHPH where they ask few questions as long as they are paid. Money orders, money orders, money orders for all kinds of things.

25 years ago when I was in the PCO business we had a basic telephone-system to get approval on a finance job. We got seniors who got denied because they had no credit to report. Credit was not as understood then, so we had to calm them down when it happened. Today you still hear about the occasional "credit ghost" with nothing to report. My dad had 2 lines on his credit report when he died, that was it. I have 10 or so, several of which are listed as closed. I plan to get down to 5 the next few years.

Quote:
And even with no credit card, you'd still need a checking account and/or savings account so that you could cash checks and store your money safely. (I presume that Equifax collects data on checking accounts, is this correct?)


No, not on credit reports anyhow. There is some bank system that checks up on accounts you have had, however.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
September 18th, 2017 at 10:13:12 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11750
Quote: reno
And without a credit card you couldn't buy an airplane ticket or rent a car, or check into a (nice) hotel. (Presumably a mom & pop motel might still accept cash.)


I'm quite sure you can pay cash for a plane ticket at the airport counter, or at an airline office (if any still exist), or to a travel agent.

In Mexico I've paid for hotels in cash (one night) at the front desk in advance.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 18th, 2017 at 10:37:19 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 18
Posts: 806
Quote: Nareed
I'm quite sure you can pay cash for a plane ticket at the airport counter, or at an airline office (if any still exist), or to a travel agent.

In Mexico I've paid for hotels in cash (one night) at the front desk in advance.


You can definitely pay cash for airline tickets and hotels here. There is a high likelihood that you may get special treatment from TSA when paying cash for an airline ticket (especially if it is last minute).
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