Red Dawn (33 years ago)

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November 18th, 2017 at 6:54:03 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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This film, released in 1984 was somewhat shocking at the time because it implied that the Europeans would all leave NATO and sit out the next war.



The seldom seen remake had the USA fighting the Chinese until someone remembered that the Chinese are the most numerous film fans in the world. They quickly changed the invading army to North Koreans, but the film was never released in China anyway.

I do remember in 1984 that I was shocked at the idea that we would go to war without our European allies. Now it seems like a real possibility.
November 18th, 2017 at 7:07:45 PM permalink
Evenbob
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Quote: Pacomartin
The seldom seen remake had the USA fighting the Chinese until someone remembered that the Chinese are the most numerous film fans in the world. .


Not only that, the Chinese have a better
sense of humor than most modern
countries do. Ask any US diplomat
where he would rather be sent and
it will be China over anywhere in EU.
The diplomats in EU are dour, gloomy,
and have a very limited humor scale.

The Chinese are open, often see multiple
sides of everything, and can be very fun
people to deal with. They aren't doom
and gloom activists like so many in
Europe are.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 18th, 2017 at 7:39:13 PM permalink
Wizard
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I liked the original. I saw it when it first came out so forgive me if me if I don't remember it that well. That said, I don't think the movie ever mentioned the larger picture of the war. It could be assumed that the USSR attacked Europe as well. Besides, the movie defied logic to begin with. You would think we had a military the size of the Podunk Iowa police department to be conquered so easily. Granted, the USSR had the advantage of surprise, but still.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 18th, 2017 at 7:46:51 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Evenbob
The Chinese are open, often see multiple sides of everything, and can be very fun people to deal with.


Chinese history (or at least mythology) goes back 4000 years, near the Birth of Abraham. So for most of human civilization there has been a China. As opposed to Belgium which is 187 years old and was almost wiped out several times.

Maybe it gives the Chinese a different sense of statesmanship, because they figure that one way or the other they will always be here.
November 18th, 2017 at 9:24:19 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
Maybe it gives the Chinese a different sense of statesmanship, because they figure that one way or the other they will always be here.


I have heard people say they made
lifelong friends while living in China.
You hear the opposite about, say,
Japan. You can live there for 10 years
and have no friends and never
feel welcome, even if you deal with
the same Japanese every day. It's
an entirely different culture than China.
Or even VietNam. Which is also
a friendly Asian country.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 18th, 2017 at 9:55:21 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
I liked the original. I saw it when it first came out so forgive me if me if I don't remember it that well. That said, I don't think the movie ever mentioned the larger picture of the war. It could be assumed that the USSR attacked Europe as well. Besides, the movie defied logic to begin with. You would think we had a military the size of the Podunk Iowa police department to be conquered so easily. Granted, the USSR had the advantage of surprise, but still.


You are correct, the movie did concentrated on showing American teen partisans fighting like teenagers did in occupied territory in WWII. The story wasn't very concerned with the global politics, but there was one piece of dialogue that gave a minimal story. I always remembered the phrase about Europe, "They are sitting this one out".

The Latino population in the USA went from 4.5% in 1970 to 6.4% in 1980, so the writers tapped into some of that fear. The Hispanic population of the United States as of July 1, 2016, constitute 17.8%.

Quote: Dialogue about the start of war from Red Dawn

First wave of the attack came in disguised as a commercial charter flight, same way they did in Afghanistan in '80. Only they were crack airborne outfits. They took these passes in the Rockies.

So that's what hit Calumet.

I guess so.

They coordinated with selective nuke strikes, and their missiles were hell of a lot more accurate than we thought. They took out silos here in the Dakotas - and key points of communication.

- Like what?

Oh, like Omaha, Washington, Kansas City.

Gone?

- Yeah, that's right.

- Jesus Christ.

Infiltrators came up illegal from Mexico. Cubans, mostly. They managed to infiltrate SAC bases in the Midwest, several down in Texas. Wreaked a hell of a lot of havoc. They opened up the door down here and the whole Cuban and Nicaraguan armies come walking right through, rolled right up here through the Great Plains.

How far did they get?

Cheyenne across to Kansas. We held them at the Rockies and at the Mississippi. Anyway, the Russians reinforced with 60 divisions. Sent three whole army groups across the Bering Strait, into Alaska. Cut the pipeline, came across Canada to link up here in the middle. But we stopped their butt cold. Lines have pretty much stabilized now.

What about Europe?

I guess they figured twice in one century was enough. They're sitting this one out. All except England. They won't last very long.


The Russians need to take us in one piece. That's why they're here now. That's why they won't use nukes anymore and we won't either. Not on our own soil. The whole damn thing's pretty conventional now. Who knows? Maybe next week will be swords.

What started it? I don't know. Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later they're gonna fight.

That simple?
November 18th, 2017 at 10:05:25 PM permalink
Wizard
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I forgot about that exchange.

I recall at the time there was near 100% correlation between your liking of the movie and political orientation.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 19th, 2017 at 1:45:40 AM permalink
Fleastiff
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None of it was really very believable. Third rate Cuban paratroopers landing in a high school playing field. No English language skills. No priority targets. No news bulletins of events elsewhere as warnings.

It wasn't about geopolitical influence it was just enough to make things look a little more reasonable for events to be taking place in Jerkwater, USA.
November 19th, 2017 at 3:35:22 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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"The Day After" aired on television the year before

At the time the movie came out, Konstantin Chernenko had succeeded Yuri Andropov has leader of the Soviet Union.

Quote: Wizard
I recall at the time there was near 100% correlation between your liking of the movie and political orientation.


I don't remember that very well. I saw the movie as a simple WWII propaganda film that was updated to the present day using the standard bogeyman of the time.
November 19th, 2017 at 4:32:43 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
I forgot about that exchange.

I recall at the time there was near 100% correlation between your liking of the movie and political orientation.


I think there still is the same correlation. IIRC it was on Siskel and Ebert that one of them was complaining that the first thing the Cubans did was go to the sheriff's office to get a list of registered guns.

I still think one thing in both this and "Amerika" is true. Most of the USA will lie down to an invasion if they are allowed to keep their homes and live in relative comfort. A minority would even welcome invaders as liberators, at least at first.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
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