Ukraine conflict

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January 25th, 2022 at 11:04:47 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1053
Posts: 12466
On 30 December 1922 the Ukraine became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. The other ones were Armenia, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, Georgia
and of cours Russia. So this relationship is a century old even if Ukraine has been independent for 30 years.

Russian is used at home by 43–46% of the population of the country (in other words a similar proportion to Ukrainian) and Russophones make a majority of the population in Eastern and Southern regions of Ukraine:



Roughly 97% of the Crimean peninsula (population ~ 2 million) speaks Russian.


I don't like the idea of Russia taking some Ukrainian territory any more than anyone else, but I would hate to see American soldiers die over this conflict.
January 25th, 2022 at 11:11:45 AM permalink
missedhervee
Member since: Apr 23, 2021
Threads: 68
Posts: 2567
Russia wants a buffer; Ukraine would work.

Putin and Biden should consider a pact where both agree not to militarize / invade Ukraine, and that it not join NATO.
January 25th, 2022 at 11:21:45 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 159
Posts: 15414
I really doubt there will be any direct order to engage Russia or Russia to engage the US. But that doesn't mean if something starts, we couldn't eventually get drawn into it. Especially if we have troops in bordering countries.
Pro-lifer eats meatball with entire human inside without noticing. "Yum Yum", he says.
January 25th, 2022 at 11:23:35 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 17098
The USA has no real interest here. It has the interest of keeping Russia down as always, but really do we really need that? With the Baltics in NATO we can station troops close enough to Moscow that we need not worry about the long supply lines and Russian winter that stopped Napoleon and Hitler. Russia is a demographic disaster. Putin is almost 70, how many years does he really have left? After him there will probably be a huge power struggle, potentially full of purges not as bad as Stalin but the same result.

No need for one dead USA soldier or one spent USD. At best trade it off in exchange for Russia helping isolate China.
The President is a fink.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:33:05 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1053
Posts: 12466
Quote: AZDuffman
With the Baltics in NATO we can station troops close enough to Moscow that we need not worry about the long supply lines and Russian winter that stopped Napoleon and Hitler. Russia is a demographic disaster. Putin is almost 70, how many years does he really have left? After him there will probably be a huge power struggle, potential.




SVO Moscow , RU Russia
400 miles MSQ Minsk , BY Belarus
470 miles KBP Kiev , UA Ukraine
487 miles VNO Vilnius , LT Lithuania BALTICS
518 miles RIX Riga , LV Latvia BALTICS
522 miles TLL Tallinn , EE Estonia BALTICS
724 miles KIV Chisinau , MD Moldava
770 miles SIP Simferopol , UA Ukraine

I imagine that Belarus (pop 9.4 million), Ukraine( pop 44 million), and Moldava (pop 2.6 million) will petition to join the European Union
January 25th, 2022 at 5:07:48 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 17098
Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for years. I wondered why we did not do it in the 1990s when Russia was helpless. I guess now we see why.
The President is a fink.
January 25th, 2022 at 9:23:35 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 24
Posts: 3506
Quote: AZDuffman
The USA has no real interest here. It has the interest of keeping Russia down as always, but really do we really need that? With the Baltics in NATO we can station troops close enough to Moscow that we need not worry about the long supply lines and Russian winter that stopped Napoleon and Hitler. Russia is a demographic disaster. Putin is almost 70, how many years does he really have left? After him there will probably be a huge power struggle, potentially full of purges not as bad as Stalin but the same result.

No need for one dead USA soldier or one spent USD. At best trade it off in exchange for Russia helping isolate China.


You do realize they already are one of the top receivers of foreign aid (I would guess the top European country by far), so we already invest a lot in their defense for the money argument.

I agree Russia is a declining power, but they can do a lot of damage in the short term. Iraq was a declining power when they annexed Kuwait. In some respects in makes an aggressive action more likely. NATO is a strong alliance (and probably one of the most positive alliances in human history) and has made their view clear, that Ukraine must be defended.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm
January 26th, 2022 at 3:20:12 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 17098
Quote: Gandler
You do realize they already are one of the top receivers of foreign aid (I would guess the top European country by far), so we already invest a lot in their defense for the money argument.

I agree Russia is a declining power, but they can do a lot of damage in the short term. Iraq was a declining power when they annexed Kuwait. In some respects in makes an aggressive action more likely. NATO is a strong alliance (and probably one of the most positive alliances in human history) and has made their view clear, that Ukraine must be defended.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm


Iraq was not a declining power when it invaded Kuwait. It was never really much of a power at all.
The President is a fink.
January 26th, 2022 at 5:50:04 AM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1395
We went from the first president in forty years who didn't start a war, to one who is risking nuclear war against a country that could flatten the US in one hour, because they have a reported 100,000 troops stationed inside their own country on their own border.

Another crisis created by Biden with the usual media propaganda machine support, intended to distract Americans from his dismal record.

Energy prices in Europe are up 600% in the past year. They get 40% of their natural gas supply from Russia. They are not about to risk following the man who represents the American moron majority, and having Putin crush their economies and freezing them to death, by shutting off the flow.

Nato member Croatia has already pulled its troops out of Eastern Europe, over Biden’s Ukraine crisis.

Nato member Germany refuses to export lethal weapons to Ukraine, and is blocking British planes carrying weapons bound for Ukraine from flying over Germany.

Germany also warned the Baltic nations they sold weapons to, they better not send them to Ukraine.

Ukraine Says ‘Destabilization’ Fueled by Biden Admin Hysteria, Not Russia
January 26th, 2022 at 5:54:50 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 24
Posts: 3506
Remeber the days when all the Cons blasted Obama for being too weak on Ukraine, now they are getting all upset that Biden is taking a stand?

What happened to Romney's Russia plan that you guys were all obsessed with?
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