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Should Trans People be allowed to use opposite sex bathrooms?
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May 24th, 2023 at 10:41:12 AM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 26 Posts: 4152 |
I am fortunate to have a (humane) source of eggs, so I have not had to buy any in some years (not a huge fan of eggs, usually use them only as baking or to make something). The ethical problem is saying less sentience matters is because you are accepting a level of sentience. And, there are humans with lower sentience and intelligence than virtually all animals (everyone in a coma, certain degrees of disability etc....) I am not a vegan. Though I am an advocate of vegan principles. I don't agree, it may be who I associate with (again most vegans -who live as vegans- I know are libertarian or otherwise conservative so they may different in their advocacy), but most vegans I know are very live and let live and will not care what you are eating in front of them. They just live their life. I think animals have rights. And, so do most people (but they end those rights to animals that they find cute). Your chicken point is a good one, because when that puppy blender video was made people were furious and demanding action against the video poster (rightly so in my view), but they were totally uninterested on how this happens on a daily basis to chickens. People just don't want to think about what happens at factory farms. But, yeah you are correct that such operations attract people with sadistic tendencies. Your proposal is reasonable, though I find it ironic that you (as a libertarian) would prefer to keep subsidies and add regulations than the inverse (I am not saying this as an insult, I just find it ironic). |
May 24th, 2023 at 11:00:59 AM permalink | |
Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 3940 |
Good deal on the eggs. It just so happens that my current diet generally does not call for anything with eggs as an ingredient, so I don't have to worry about it other than when directly eating eggs. I would also say that those humans really don't matter, but they are afforded certain legal protections. I grant that it depends on the vegan. As with anything, the loudest, most annoying, self-righteous or those deliberately seeking attention seem to dominate social media and are, most likely, not reflective of the average vegan. Unfortunately, when the most outspoken are also the most self-righteous and insufferable, they do nothing to compel people to the lifestyle. An example of the principle is how Trump found his way into the Oval Office. Basically, you don't get people to your side by painting the other side as objectively evil (meaning your rank-and-file meat eaters) for contemplating what they are contemplating. These people would have better success if they simply highlighted what benefits there are to their lifestyle while otherwise maintaining a live and let live attitude. I don't think animals have rights, per se, but that doesn't mean that I would advocate deliberately causing pain to something that can experience pain in the name of low prices. Go get confronted with a tiger and try to explain human rights to it. We're on top of the food chain. Other than what we stop ourselves from doing, by choice, we can do whatever the hell we want to lesser animals and there is nothing they can do to prevent it. I just don't like causing something pain in the name of saving money; that doesn't mean I think they have a right to not have pain caused to them. The nice thing about being a Libertarian is that you're not required to have ideological purity and be purely company line on every single specific issue. In terms of commonly discussed issues, we're roughly 30% pro-life, for example. Mostly religious grounds, for those who are, of course. You can be pro-life, or pro-choice and still be a Libertarian. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
May 24th, 2023 at 11:18:24 AM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 26 Posts: 4152 |
I mean you can make that argument on literally any issues. The most obnoxious people always get the most attention. For some reason it seems to be veganism where people lump everyone in as obnoxious and crazy. My guess is you interact with several vegans a day and don't even know it (and probably won't unless you happen to eat together). I mean Trump is objectively a bad person by any traditional defintion (liar, conman, no morals, sexually deviant, etc....) I don't know if I would say evil, but objectively immoral. I don't think pointing out the negative aspects of a person or issue is an inherently bad argument (especially if they want the ultimate position of power). The idea of being able to do whatever we want to lesser animals is a dangerous road. What if some extremely high level creatures colonized earth (not completely impossible), would they be able to do anything to us? It's the classic treat those who are less fortunate how you would want to be treated in that position. |
May 24th, 2023 at 11:32:05 AM permalink | |
Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 3940 |
Honestly, I wouldn't notice it even if I ate with them. I do not entertain guests for any reason, unless it cannot be avoided. I could count on one hand the number of people, other than my fiancee and kids, with whom I have dined in the last five years. Even then, if I ate out with a vegan, I would pay no mind to what they ordered. How could what they order possibly matter to me? Anytime I eat out with someone I don't know particularly well, I always ask them to choose the restaurant. If they simply choose, then that will be where we go. If they choose AND tell me they are choosing that one because of vegan options, then I will refuse to go with them to the restaurant, or anywhere else. I was referring to the, "Basket of deplorables," thing. More generally, the people who would paint all who even considered voting for Trump in a bad light. The more self-righteous vegans are basically the same thing; they try to convince you to do, or not do, something based on how evil you are if you take any other than their chosen actions. That doesn't work with a lot of people; go ask religion how well that works. The problem is that many people have a desire to be seen as the most moral, or virtuous, and they attribute a hyper inflated virtuousness to their own doings. Many of these people have super-inflated egos and fail to adequately appraise themselves or attribute at least equal value to their many failings. They often also refuse to accept that what they see as virtuous, someone else might see as neutral, inconsequential or even negative. More flies with honey, and all. In terms of lifestyle choices, one would have better luck getting people to their side by convincing them that what they are doing is for the better---not that what the one to be convinced is doing is wrong, immoral or evil. It depends on the high-level creatures in question. When it comes to the animals, my starting point is that the animals are powerless to do anything about it and what we do to them, as well as how we treat them, is going to be according to our individual, or collective, preferences. I would suggest that it's the same thing with the aliens; if we are powerless to stop these hypothetical aliens, then the only thing stopping them from mistreating us will be themselves and we will have no choice but to be subject to whatever conditions they will allow for us. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
May 24th, 2023 at 12:34:20 PM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 26 Posts: 4152 |
Oh I agree when it comes to lifestyle, just setting a good example and showing the positives does more to win people over than telling people they are morally wrong. I honestly don't know any vegans who are actually like that. I see that meme a lot, but day to day I just don't see it. Again, like any group I am sure obnoxious people are out there, and if you look at social media (again on any issue) it brings out the most extreme (one reason I am not a social media fan). But, that is exactly my point, if we become (or maybe are unknown to us) being overseen by some higher entities, we would hope that they have a higher level of ethics than we do (just like we have a higher level of ethics than tigers). Sure, you can mistreat an animal with zero reprocussions, but you can also get away with mistreating humans in many contexts. It does not mean that behavior is worthy of praise. |
May 25th, 2023 at 5:33:32 AM permalink | |
DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 49 Posts: 4789 |
I think I would if I required nutrition and other meat was not available. At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent. |
May 25th, 2023 at 6:35:51 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 180 Posts: 17888 |
It's been popular. Always gets a lot more popular when people are starving to death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cannibalism Not responsible for you needing a therapist to accept facts |
May 25th, 2023 at 6:50:44 AM permalink | |
Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 3940 | Don...Don...DonDon...Donner! "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
May 25th, 2023 at 8:01:41 AM permalink | |
odiousgambit Member since: Oct 28, 2012 Threads: 152 Posts: 4737 | one interesting story I read was about some [3?] Australian convicts who escaped prison and had to travel through life-threatening terrain to try to get somewhere to safety. One thing after another encouraged some cannibalism including one guy dying already from a snakebite. I dont remember it all, but the survivor [survivors?] got caught ... one guy escaped again with a new different escapee. He killed him and ate him too ... he wound up admitting he developed a taste for it! Apparently, this happens. The perfect protein to eat evidently is of your own kind; if you eat something else, it doesn't get used as efficiently. This anyway was asserted to be true in the story I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me] |
May 25th, 2023 at 8:36:13 AM permalink | |
Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 26 Posts: 4152 |
And, surprisingly completely legal in the U.S. ,some hospitals have even let people take amputated (their own) limbs home to eat. And, virtually all hospitals will let you take the placenta post-birth (considered cannibalism, even if eating it is common with certain religions). It's just very hard to obtain human meat legally (since it requires consent of the body's owner, so it usually has to be arranged when the person is alive) which is why most serial cannibals get in trouble eventually (they turn into serial killers). |