Terrorism Ever Justified?

Quote: kenarman

You carefully didn't go to the using of atomic bombs in Japan. Terrorism? Yes No

Depends on the alternatives. It’s not a decision made in a vacuum.

Quote: kenarman

You carefully didn't go to the using of atomic bombs in Japan. Terrorism? Yes No

I am not avoiding it, I have extensively talked about it in the past. Completely justified and not terrorism is the short version.

But, I was focusing on operations regarding Germany because that was the example brought up.

Quote: kenarman

You carefully didn't go to the using of atomic bombs in Japan. Terrorism? Yes No

What's the difference between dropping Little Boy on Hiroshima and the firebombing of Tokyo, or Dresden, or Hamburg?

Quote: GenoDRPh

What's the difference between dropping Little Boy on Hiroshima and the firebombing of Tokyo, or Dresden, or Hamburg?

The ironic part is that the firebombing operations were far more devastating to civilian deaths than atomic drops, but nobody has a moral outrage about them.
(And, personally I think dying from a firebombing is probably far scarier and more painful than the quick death of an atomic blast.)

Of course, part of this is by design, firebombings were in far more populated cities (Toyko, Dresden, etc...) whereas the atomic weapons were intentionally used in (by comparison) much smaller and more isolated cities.

Quote: kenarman

You carefully didn't go to the using of atomic bombs in Japan. Terrorism? Yes No

My opinion is that when in a declared state of war there is no terrorism. I also believe anything goes when at war if you think it can bring a quicker end to the conflict.

Didn't the US engage in terrorism during the Vietnam War?

The My Lai massacre comes to mind.

Quote: missedhervee

Didn't the US engage in terrorism during the Vietnam War?

The My Lai massacre comes to mind.

U.S. soldiers did, but they were prosecuted for it, it was not sanctioned action. That is the difference between the U.S. and the NVA, The NVA used civilian deaths as a policy.

I'm trying to give a crap about what's happening in Israel but it's really difficult because I've been hearing about the same conflict since the 1967 war and it never ends so it's really hard to get up any kind of emotion about it. Israel will win like they always do until the next time. Yawn.

Quote: rxwine

I would distinguish attacking random German citizens vs. Nazi infrastructure even during that period. Not everyone was a Nazi supporter. You kill regular people when it’s unavoidable to hit an actual military or Nazi government target.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Berlin_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Nagasaki
Israel has no qualms about terrorism ... sending gunmen in to murder women and children in a refugee camp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Decisions to slaughter civilians were transactional. If it was deemed worth the death of civilians, then our governments signed off on what was surely terrorism.
If rape and carnage were seen as effective means to an end, our governments would sign off on those too.

Quote: OnceDear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Berlin_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Nagasaki
Israel has no qualms about terrorism ... sending gunmen in to murder women and children in a refugee camp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Decisions to slaughter civilians were transactional. If it was deemed worth the death of civilians, then our governments signed off on what was surely terrorism.
If rape and carnage were seen as effective means to an end, our governments would sign off on those too.

I don't know exactly what Israel will do, but although people complain modern war conduct is not different than earlier versions, it is easier to level a city and kill indiscriminately than it is to pick and choose targets. We could have leveled Baghdad if we had chosen to. And we can do it a lot faster and more thoroughly than in the days of old.

You're always going to have rogue behavior in some people or units even though everyone may be under orders to follow conventional rules of war. I don't expect the opposing side to point out anything but the worst examples, if they even stick to facts at all. No one in war really sticks totally to the facts, and half the time, I don't think anyone knows everything going on anyway. Armies about to lose will announce they can hold out for forever just to try to discourage their attacker. There's a good chance someone is going to announce innocents are killed even if it doesn't actually happen as described.