Transgender Issues

I was 6'2" around 7th grade not 6th, but close.

But I couldn't dunk a basketball until 9th grade.



In the 6th grade, I was like Larry Csonka as a fullback running over folks. LOL

Later at upper levels, I got some of my own medicine. :)



There's always someone bigger or tougher around the corner.

Quote: odiousgambit

I'm not going to be drawn into your deflection about big boys and little boys. I'll talk about bio-males competing in sports set aside for females if you want.

Frankly, I can see how their must be out there an argument that Trans-girls need to be able to compete in sports, but I don't buy it. To me that need is of little consequence compared to their real problems. If you are going to make the tremendously impactful decision to change your gender [beyond pronoun changes] you need to focus on other, very real problems.

Just pointing out the obvious, that it seems to not matter so much if it's males hurt by oversized stronger males.

I've said before (somewhere on here) I'd be happy to see more sports matched by weight and or muscle mass. I can't fix sports though. They is, what they is.

Quote: odiousgambit

well, we have to ask Facebook why they thought it was relevant, and thus wouldn't show the video for the longest. Nobody else seemed to have it either when it was timely to have it ... plus I think you are being disingenuous to state that

I don't know what Facebook has to do with it (I am not on social media for some years now, so if it was some meme, it would go over my head.) I don't know why stating the policy portrayed in multiple articles (which I saw during the last discussion,) is disingenuous. The guy had a right to play on that team.

Quote: odiousgambit

I can't disagree about a study being useful, but see final remarks

We'll await the study and see

I could be wrong, but I would be shocked if it is outside the range of normal injury rates. And, frankly the burden would be on you to show that it does cause more injuries than normal (not you specifically, but your side.) Because you are claiming that trans playing has a specific health risk.

Quote: odiousgambit

Checking Youtube, I’ve confirmed it is the Mass. field hockey game of November. The situation there is a case of a guy being brought in as a Ringer to play co-ed sports, the team going for a championship... note the formality vs the informality of my day. It’s easy to believe he was told to forget any idea that he should lay off being too rough, but to work hard and play hard in practice as well as games and thereby help develop a winning team. This is another ugly side of sports, caring too much about winning and it usually heavily involves the adults. It’s relevant to the Transgender sports issue because it is a male going all out in a team with females. Maybe this goes on today more than I know. I don’t live in Massachusetts for a reason.

That is massively stretching the truth, all players signed up for a sport, that is dangerous to begin with, and knowing it is a coed team. The kid was legally eligible to apply to be on the team, and was admitted. Nothing to do with trans, at best it can be an argument against coed teams. Personally, I like the idea of coed/gender neutral (or whatever term you want to use.)

As for adults doing whatever to the roster to bolster their team being silly, I agree, I think parents get way too obsessed with something silly, so you have no argument from me on that front. But, generally speaking coed sports are fine....

Quote: odiousgambit

I realized I recognized the basketball player, so I went back to youtube for that too. Definitely a transgender bio-male playing, see video below. Said to have whiskers, maybe the only thing he changed was his name? Massachusetts again.

I think most of us have played some intramural co-ed sports and watched a lot too in the day. Usually very informal and in my day it was understood that the guys would lay off their roughest play and do what they could do to make it safe. I remember clearly once when a young woman was hit in the head with a softball and got a black eye. Turns out she had lost track of the ball and wasn't expecting it to be thrown to her base as it was, in order to get someone out [easy to suspect she had played little ball]. She was soon going around to everybody to get the guy who threw it off the hook, explaining that it was indeed her fault. The guy felt terrible, of course, but the thing was, he was under a lot of scrutiny. He had violated the code? no, all accepted he hadn't, but this had to be examined, you see.

The Transgender basketball player clearly had no such notion about any such code.

If the trans player intentionally broke some rule and intentionally injured enemy players, then hold it against them as an individual. I do not know anything about this player, but if this is a trend, address it. There are plenty of straight and non trans players who do the same thing. Again this goes back to the stats, do trans players break the rules more often? Or is the only reason we care about these two cases because one of the parties happen to be trans?

Quote: rxwine

When I was in 6th grade, there was a 12 year old kid who was 6’2”. He wasn’t any bean pole either. Should he have been allowed to play any contact sports with the rest of us?

My step-son was a very large boy and was prohibited from playing football in Jr, High because he was so much bigger and stronger than the other kids.

The anti-trans people are going about what they want all wrong. If you want to go where there's exclusivity, instead of inclusiveness you do the same thing people have always done when they finally get a clue. You go form your unified community, whether its all "whites", all Mormon, all something else.

At least until you guys manage to make being trans a crime, we include people the best we can.

If trans people want to live in their own community, (and I wouldn't blame them for feeling run out of town) as pariahs they can do that. That's always the worst reason to have to form your own community because too many people won't accept you. And people who commit no crime should never have to.

And we don't let people live their different lives based on whether we believe them. That's not a requirement or we'd only have one religion. Or no religion. Or something else we all agree we believe in.

Clearly those who disagree with my position are just as dug in about it as I am; I don't think there's much chance of changing anyone's mind. Very fundamentally I can't understand why the opposing viewpoint prevails with those who have it, I sense nefarious motives like "let's destroy it all so we can bring in our brave new world"

I say let the poor girls have their sports teams without the brave new world barging in. As a matter of priority, though, it's low on the list for me, with bathroom issues at the very bottom. So, perhaps my last word on transgenders in sports.

I'll dig up my other concerns again if you wish, I made a list once

Reminder…. I’m pretty sure I’m the only one here who has participated in gender reassignment surgery. Always to me the individual can do what they want as long as proper informed consent was given. I think that the informed consent process is more rigorous for sex change surgery than any other type of surgery.

Transgender individuals should not be discriminated against in the workplace. Or in housing.

However….. I believe strongly that all athletes should compete against other athletes according to their biological gender.
As far as the stupid bathroom debate, if you’ve undergone the surgery, go into the bathroom that fits your ‘look’. If you still have a penis, it’s the men’s room for you.

Mostly my feelings are this…. I just feel sad for someone who is so distraught that they will undergo major permanent surgery to ‘escape’ from their own body which they continually feel is ‘not right’.

Quote: SOOPOO

Mostly my feelings are this…. I just feel sad for someone who is so distraught that they will undergo major permanent surgery to ‘escape’ from their own body which they continually feel is ‘not right’.

I think that should include people who get plastic surgery for no reason but appearance reasons. Why limit it to major? Even worse, that someone feels they need surgery for just a minor correction of appearance. Something is wrong with all these people. Right?

If you can't get over a minor flaw in appearance, geez, you're even worse than these trans people.

Quote: SOOPOO

As far as the stupid bathroom debate, if you’ve undergone the surgery, go into the bathroom that fits your ‘look’. If you still have a penis, it’s the men’s room for you.

What if someone looks like a woman in every way but hasn’t undergone the surgery yet? Still the men’s bathroom for them?