My concerns about the WoV community

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October 29th, 2012 at 9:01:51 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
While I was being overly agressive about this board, I do have genuine concerns about the wisdom of setting it up, and about its implementation so far.

I'll be posting them as time permits, trying not to offend anyone in the process. For now I'll just state my main concerns without explanation:

1) The community that grew arund WoV will very likely be split

2) Arranging things like WoVCon, meet-ups, etc will be more complicated

3) WoV will grow increasingly cliquish and intolerant (it already is to some extent, but it will get worse;)

4) By having "off-topic" on its own, without connection to WoV, the quality of the discuccion here is likely to decay

5) Very likely some overly prolific poster will dominate the discussion here (don't look at me).

That's about it for now. As I said, I'll explain each point later.

I also have some concerns with hwo the site was implemented. Some have been addressed, like the color scheme (or was that lack-of-color scheme <g>), but some haven't. For example, why a "Gay and Lesbian" subsection? Where then do I post, if needed, transgender or bisexual issues?
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
October 29th, 2012 at 9:08:27 AM permalink
rdw4potus
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 10
Posts: 147
2. Isn't that gambling-oriented meeting pretty clearly within the domain of WoV? I might cross-post here once or twice, but I absolutely envision using that site to organize the con.

5. (color scheme) This (the blue) is much better than gray, but now it's too hard to determine which site I'm in. Is there a similar green palette that could be used?

6. (Gay and lesbian) This would be much better as a sex & sexuality area. That'd cover a much broader range, and include many topics that do not otherwise have a clear home.
I'm not wearing any pants, film at 11
October 29th, 2012 at 9:27:26 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
Quote: rdw4potus
2. Isn't that gambling-oriented meeting pretty clearly within the domain of WoV?


Not quite. It's a get-together with friends. The core of users here were raised at WoV, but many won't be posting there as much as they used to. Me, for instance. BTW, if I post there less than I used to, perhaps even much less, then merely arranging WoVCon ]I[ will be harder.

Then, too, the Wizard may not accumualte as much cache here with people who don't know him for gambling. So, sure, he'll still eb the site owner, but nothing more.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
October 29th, 2012 at 10:01:52 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 203
Posts: 4766
The way I envision it, WoV will always be the primary site. DT is more like an appendix. Maybe DT will develop its own following, and perhaps separate gatherings. Only time will tell.

I view DT as an effort to make WoV more tollerant. By pushing off some of the more sensitive topics to DT, there will be less fighting at WoV.

Regarding the color, good point. I have asked JB to at least temporarily make the site green, to see what it looks like.

I'm having a hard time pleasing everybody with the "Gay and Lesbian" subsection. Personally, I think of transgender and bisexual issues as in that same topic area, and would file them under G&L. If I add those to the heading then I'll be afraid I left out some other group. If I make is just "sexuality" then I'm afraid it will turn into a forum about how to find hookers in Vegas.

I'm open to specific suggestions about a title and subtitle for that section. Currently there is no subtitle at all, out fear of offending somebody.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
October 29th, 2012 at 10:19:45 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Sexuality is not the same as sex. If people can't see the difference, then.. well they can't tell the difference. Gender roles also != sexuality.

I think a sexuality forum though would cover most bases, be wide enough and you can always sub-forum it is it becomes clear it's not working, or there is a bunch of useful discussion about GLB issues that need their own space. I suspect there would not be. But who knows, the beauty of it all is you can flexibly make changes later.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
October 29th, 2012 at 1:40:23 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
Quote: Wizard
Personally, I think of transgender and bisexual issues as in that same topic area, and would file them under G&L.


That's a problem that goes well beyond this type of forum.

Quote:
If I add those to the heading then I'll be afraid I left out some other group.


Good point. Most often the "inclusive" tag is GLBTI, although you'll see some much longer.

Quote:
If I make is just "sexuality" then I'm afraid it will turn into a forum about how to find hookers in Vegas.


Sexuality covers all human behavior related to sex. I mean everything, from "plain vanilla" straight sex, to "kinky" sex, to sexual perversions like necrophilia and even worse things.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
October 29th, 2012 at 2:42:54 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
So let's take them up one at a time:

Quote:
1) The community that grew arund WoV will very likely be split


I suppose some people will be more or less equally active in both baords. But a significant fraction won't, in particualr those obsessed with the purity of the "gambling" board. For myself only, gambling is of limited interest. I asked a great many questions before, but by now I think outisde of new games and bets I pretty much know all I need to know. What I liked about WoV were the people who gathered there and the wide variety of topics discussed.

BTW this has been my experience in other types of baords. One where I even Admined for a time was dedicated to Isaac Asimov and, to a lesser extent, to SF. That one died of spam (really). BUt while I was glad to discuss Asimov's large body of work, eventually we all ran down and topics began to be repeated. By the tenth time someone opened a thread to ask about the parallels between the number of Spacer Worlds and US states, I just summarily deleted any such nonsense. Oh, but didn't the purist raise a cry to the heavens when some of us began to talk about Star Wars fiction!

Quote:
2) Arranging things like WoVCon, meet-ups, etc will be more complicated


This has been explained by now.

Quote:
3) WoV will grow increasingly cliquish and intolerant (it already is to some extent, but it will get worse;)


We will see increasing hostility for threads not realted to gambling. At first threads about Vegas will be ok, but in time they might come under attack, too. All the mroe so with the precedent that the powers that be can move them to another board.

Quote:
4) By having "off-topic" on its own, without connection to WoV, the quality of the discuccion here is likely to decay


This is an open question, of course. We'll see what kind of people find their way here. overall, however, I think WoV had a unique combination of factors that attracted a type of person. A site that lacks focus won't do that.

Quote:
5) Very likely some overly prolific poster will dominate the discussion here (don't look at me).


Well, this is more a statement of intent, really :P

There's something else, too, but more personal. I feel like I was evicted from a nice, comfortable house because the owner felt like replacing the tract with a strip mall.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
October 29th, 2012 at 11:50:25 PM permalink
MonkeyMonkey
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 111
Quote: Wizard
I'm having a hard time pleasing everybody with the "Gay and Lesbian" subsection.


Why even try?

If your intent wasn't too offend, then it's not a big deal, or at least it shouldn't be.

Personally, I'd go with 'Sexuality' or something along those lines, you can't be much more inclusive than that.
World's most discriminating Kool-Aid connoisseur
October 30th, 2012 at 12:05:22 AM permalink
MonkeyMonkey
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 111
Quote: Nareed
For example, why a "Gay and Lesbian" subsection? Where then do I post, if needed, transgender or bisexual issues?


I thought I agreed with the first sentence, because I too thought, "Why have a 'Gay and Lesbian' section?" then it occurred to me that while I see no need for one, you seem to be in favor of expanding it. From my understanding many gay folks feel excluded or like second class citizens, or what have you. Doesn't a separate section just reinforce that? Why not have an African American section, or a Chinese section, etc.? I think if the Wiz wants there to be a section where "Gay and Lesbian" issues can be discussed it should be even broader and include everyone.

As to your second sentence (at least the transgender bit)... I'm not sure how to express this without offending you, but wouldn't you be much better served by asking those questions on a forum dedicated to the topic? I doubt anyone here knows more about it than you do. If you just want to share your journey wouldn't your personal blog here be an appropriate place?
World's most discriminating Kool-Aid connoisseur
October 30th, 2012 at 1:04:45 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 6307
I think its good to split things off so that now we have "A Casino" and "Zodies".

For those not in the know, Zodies is a smoke filled bar that caters to every sexual persuasion there is... it even lets a few heterosexuals enter the place so they can mingle with the group sexers, trannies, fetishists, BDSM-types, etc. etc. etc.
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