Malaysian Jet

Quote: Tomspur

Speaking of losses, how will this incident (we cannot reliably call it an accident yet) affect Malaysian Airlines financially? I know they have insurance against such a disaster but what about economically? Will people still fly with them if, for instance it comes to light that it was pilot suicide? How did it affect Egypt Air? Problem is Egypt Air is nowhere near as big an airline as what MA is.

What other financial considerations is there to this incident?

As far as I know, no crash has ever shut down an airline. Valujet did opt to take the name of their merger partner, after merging with the small AirTran Airways, but they kept growing.

There is always a temporary loss of revenue, of course.

Pan Am. Lockerbie was the last straw in their decline.

Quote: Dalex64

Pan Am. Lockerbie was the last straw in their decline.

Well, they had already started losing a fortune by the mid 1970's, more than a decade before 1988 Lockerbie. The Gulf War administered the Coup de grâce .

Quote: Pacomartin

So there is narrow body flights across the Atlantic with 757.

Liek LArry Niven, I'm miffed when I wind up predicting the past...

Quote:

I don't know if they try it with a 737.

Give it time. If not these airlines, then others.

BTW yesterday I flew in a brand new B-737/800 which was vcery nicely appointed. It had individual screens on every seat, plus a USB port (for charging one's gadgets). Usually I just ignore the onboard entertainment, but one feature in this Aeromexico flight was a near-real-time map along the route with info on altitude, (ground) speed, time, time elapsed, ETA, distance travelled, distance to travel, plus two rather interesting bits fo data: outside air temperature and head/tail wind speed (in kph/mph).

It turns out I've no problem following the course and data while listening to an audibook :)

BTW, it's "holy week" (semana santa) in Mexico, I think called Easter elsewhere in the world, which seems to be the time Christians celebrate the time when Jesus took a vacation. So all pious Christians emulate their savior and head out of town, usually to the nearest beach. This means airports are packed, flights are nearly full and delay rules supreme.

Heading out from Mex City yesterday (Embraer 190), the plane "departed" within five minutes of its appointed time. That is to say, it pulled out of the gate in that interval. Then it waited for its turn to taxi to the taxi way, then for a takeoff slot. Tedious story short, the 10 am flight "departed" on time but took off 30 minutes late (you just ahve to love the "techincal" terminology that lets airlines get away with these things).

Heading back to Mexico (that brand new 737) the plane arrived late, then got furhter delayed due to, as the gate agent said a half-million times "Heavy air traffic conditions at our destination). So the 10 PM flight "departed" at 10:50 PM, but then had to wait for its turn, plues we got to taxi to the other end of the runway first. Takeoff took place at around 11:10 PM.

Not to be done, we got pulled into a holding pattern about 200 kms from Mex City duew to, as the Captain said twice, "A runway switch at Mexico City," whatever the hell that means. The map feature showed the oval racetrack pattern of the plane very nicely.

Upon landing there was yet more waiting in line to taxi to the terminal, waiting for planes to "depart" and waiting some more just for kicks (or so it seems).

The only reason this story doesn't end much later is that Mexico has relatively little air travel compared to the US and Europe.

Quote: Nareed

The only reason this story doesn't end much later is that Mexico has relatively little air travel compared to the US and Europe.

That is not likely to change in the near future as most of the population lives within a bus ride.

Its not the skies that are crowded, its the airports.

Quote: Fleastiff

Its not the skies that are crowded, its the airports.

In the USA Atlanta is 40%-60% larger than ORD, LAX, or DFW.

In Mexico the Mexico City airport is 4X the size of Guadalajara, and 5X the size of Monterrey. Cancun is half the size of Mexico City, but the majority of the air traffic is going to USA.

Attempts to move traffic to Adolfo López Mateos International Airport in Toluca, or to develop Querétaro International Airport or ermanos Serdán International Airport in Puebla have met with almost no results. Discussions to build a new airport are as difficult as they are anywhere else in the world.

Bus lines in Mexico have radically upgraded terminals and coaches to fend off any competition from economy air lines. A bus terminal in small cities in Mexico are often nicer than the air terminal.

Quote: Pacomartin

While there are economy seats in a Boeing 777, the $260-$380 million jet can only profitably flown by selling business class seats.

Using the Southwest model, we define an economy airline as one that flies narrow body jets that cost $60-$80 million and have up to 175 seats where 95%-100% are economy seats. Clearly this type of airline has moved out of strictly domestic flights to include flights to Mexico and the Caribbean.

For transatlantic flights, the only examples I could find using this business model were Air Lingus flying from Boston to Shannon (B757 configured for 175 seats with only 8 business class) and Icelandair also flying B757. These routes are relatively short, and despite being transatlantic, the Icelandic flights, are actually primarily over land. You can also clear American customs in Shannon airport.

According to Wikipedia, the 737 Next Generation (-600/-700/-800/-900ER) Maximum range, fully loaded will be (3,510–6,340 miles). Do you foresee a transatlantic economy airline developing along the lines of Southwest, Easyjet, Ryanair or Volaris?


There are probably more Irish Americans in eastern Mass. than Irish in Ireland.

Paco,

I absolutely do see it with B737's. Alaska Airlines is proving the business model works over the last 5 years, at least in miniature, by offering Kona HI B737 flights from San Jose, Seattle, LAX (think it was out of Ontario, actually, and some out of Burbank) and other 2nd tier AC airports (2nd tier by way of landing fees, not by quality). (They are also flying to Maui and/or Honolulu, but I'm less familiar with the particulars.) They started with 1 2 days a week from 1 west coast airport, and over the 2 years I was there built up to everyday service from at least 3 airports, with several-a-week from at least 2 others, and the planes were packed. Their airfares were 20-40% less than Delta/United/American from the same regions, and with domestic connections, it was practical from nearly anywhere in the US (I flew them several times to/from Florida). I think the trick will be to identify the profitable routes, and for the company to get certified in foreign ports (whichever company does it; to my knowledge, ASA only serves N.A. destinations like Cabo, Vancouver, etc., not truly international).

It's very expensive operationally compared to domestic flights both to meet international requirements and to maintain gates and routes. I do see the expenses going down significantly, though, as capacity expands with GPS technology; a lot of the holdup has been overwater (we call it Oceanic) tracking and safe routes have been well below demand historically; there will be a geometric expansion with reliable GPS automation, now in limited availability but should be fully implemented within 5-10 years (delay is the financial burden for providers/governments to do the ramp-up getting into budgets; the technology is there).

Quote: Fleastiff

The suicide by Egypt Air was never a problem in Egypt because it never took place. The whole thing was a concoction by US political interests to smear the Egyptian people..

You're joking, right?

Quote: Evenbob

You're joking, right?

May I suggest you ask a number of Egyptian males. You will find they are very defensive on the issue and do at least make that assertion. Partly it may indeed be due to the laws and customs of male-female interaction in Egypt where a man being fired from his job for fondling a woman's breasts is utterly unheard of and unbelievable.