Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

As a married man God made you heterosexual and He also at the same time says you can't express that orientation with any other female.

There is no god, I can express anything I
choose to. It's a sick joke the myth god
played on Gays, though. A smart Gay
person would avoid that myth like it was
the plague.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no god, I can express anything I
choose to.

What would happen to you and your relationship with your wife if you did choose to express your orientation in the way you want to?

Quote: FrGamble

What would happen to you and your relationship with your wife if you did choose to express your orientation in the way you want to?

All actions have rewards and consequences, for
theists and atheists alike. There's no difference.
The impact is here an now, not after you're
gone.

Quote: Evenbob

All actions have rewards and consequences, for
theists and atheists alike. There's no difference.
The impact is here an now, not after you're
gone.

So it would be wrong to express your orientation in the way you want to?

Quote: FrGamble

So it would be wrong to express your orientation in the way you want to?

If you take a vow to be faithful, why would you break
the vow. Your spouse expects you gave it in good
faith. Right or wrong doesn't enter into it.

Quote: rxwine

Righthanders (the majority) have of course forced lefthanders to conform before. It's pointless shaming.
.

http://uncletaz.com/at/janfeb04/lefthandedness.html

The Carholic Church labeled left-handers as servants to the devil. Catholic schools forced people to write with their right hand. This was still going on in the 1970s - my sister in law was forced to write with her right hand.

The bible has negative things to say about left handedness, left handed people, and things even placed on the left, in over 25 places.

The link has those cites, along with other examples of non-catholic right handed people discriminating against left handers.

What is the church's position on left handedness and left handed people now, and what do they say about their practices and positions on this in the past?

Quote: FrGamble

I don't want to pretend that for an instant this is a comfortable teaching to proclaim or for many to hear.

Do you know what "crocodile tears" are?

Quote:

It is based on natural law and the obvious ways our bodies were made to be complimentary.

Your body was not made. It developed. Before that it evolved, if you want causation, through random chance, plus natural selection, plus societal selection, plus more random chance. If you want to believe Biblical fairy tales, that's your affair, but don't you dare impose that view on everyone.

Quote:

However, Jesus did not preach about this

I can't believe that. The degree of animosity and malice directed by Christians at same-sex relationships indicates that man absolutely must have passionately hated it. Surely it's plastered all over the New Testament, in big, bold, underlined red letters.

Quote:

and while He did say marriage is between one man and one woman and that it was an unbreakable and exclusive covenant of love

You expect me to believe that? It must certainly be just Catholic propaganda, seeing as most other Christian splinters have no problem with divorce. That is assuming even Catholics really believe it, seeing as how there is no gnashing and wailing and tearing of vestments at civil divorce and civil re-marriage, you know, as how you and your brethren freaked out at a civil institution being expanded to include all couples.

Quote:

I do believe He would not condemn anyone who committed homosexual acts.

From this point on my very sincere attempts at suspending disbelief have collapsed two construction cranes and one cargo helicopter. I can't keep rebutting every misconception as expressed.

Quote:

He ate with prostitutes for goodness sake and publically forgave a woman caught in adultery.

So in your mind the marriage of a same-sex couple is equal to prostitution and adultery? Equal to debasement and betrayal? And you wonder why we're at war?

Quote:

Why can we not say that sexual practices of homosexuals while subjectively normal to them are objectively against natural law and can be harmful?

Because they are not against natural law. perpetual motion machines, free energy devices, and such are against natural law. That's why they're impossible. Same-sex attraction is not only natural, but quite congruent with every known law of nature.

And if you can prove any kind of same-sex sexual relationship is harmful, you'll be the first person in the history of the universe to ever do so (and if you say AIDS, I promise I'll punch you in the nose if we ever meet).

Quote:

God has a vision of love that is not tied explicitly and exclusively into the use of our genitals.

Oh, damn, another one? If that were true, your church would care as little about same-sex relationships as it does about the color of car tires.

Quote: Dalex64

The Carholic Church labeled left-handers as servants to the devil. Catholic schools forced people to write with their right hand. This was still going on in the 1970s - my sister in law was forced to write with her right hand.

I'm surprised this was so. I thought it was more social in nature.

I also know two people who were forced to use their right hand when they were young. One of them really got badly hurt by it.

Quote: Dalex64

The Carholic Church labeled left-handers as servants to the devil. Catholic schools forced people to write with their right hand. This was still going on in the 1970s - my sister in law was forced to write with her right hand.

The Church is the most superstitious
organization on earth. FrG will say that's
not true because the Church banned
superstition centuries ago. That's like
thinking the color red doesn't exist
anymore because you banned it.

Quote: Nareed

Your body was not made. It developed. Before that it evolved, if you want causation, through random chance, plus natural selection, plus societal selection, plus more random chance. If you want to believe Biblical fairy tales, that's your affair, but don't you dare impose that view on everyone.

It's not me nor the Bible imposing anything, only reason and Mother Nature. We have developed and this development makes it clear how we should use our bodies, how they were meant to fit together, and how to take care of them.

Quote:

I can't believe that. The degree of animosity and malice directed by Christians at same-sex relationships indicates that man absolutely must have passionately hated it. Surely it's plastered all over the New Testament, in big, bold, underlined red letters.

Nope, nary a word from Jesus about the subject. I think your perception is a combination of Christians exaggerating the teaching to a point that Jesus would not recognize it and an exaggeration on your part based on the sensitive nature of this issue to you. I think you seem to feel that any questioning of the homosexual lifestyle or the issue of "gay marriage" equals hatred and a declaration of war. Not so.

Quote:

You expect me to believe that? It must certainly be just Catholic propaganda, seeing as most other Christian splinters have no problem with divorce. That is assuming even Catholics really believe it, seeing as how there is no gnashing and wailing and tearing of vestments at civil divorce and civil re-marriage, you know, as how you and your brethren freaked out at a civil institution being expanded to include all couples.

This is indeed one thing Jesus and the New Testament do spend a lot of time on. Marriage, its importance and what it is. Jesus is crystal clear on the nature of marriage in the Gospels. While you will not seeing wailing at what the civil world may think about marriage I do often wonder how so many of our protestant brothers and sisters seem to have no problem with divorce when Jesus could not have been clearer. I mean this and the Eucharist are some of the clearest teachings of Jesus Christ and the most historically held by all Christians, I'm with you I don't believe it sometimes that not all Christians hold this.

Quote:

From this point on my very sincere attempts at suspending disbelief have collapsed two construction cranes and one cargo helicopter. I can't keep rebutting every misconception as expressed.

Then stop disbelieving and come to believe that the cranes and helicopters in your mind are holding up a false conception of the Church's teaching on the issue of homosexuality. It is not the hateful diatribe you have heard or imagine.

Quote:

So in your mind the marriage of a same-sex couple is equal to prostitution and adultery? Equal to debasement and betrayal? And you wonder why we're at war?

Again it is almost as if you have a pathological desire to hate the Church and me. This is NOT at all what I was doing in that quote. I was only justifying why I think Jesus would not condemn anyone for homosexual activity. He forgive publically and became friends with those the world considered sinners and changed their lives. He condemned those who judged and thought of themselves as holier than thou. Again you are making up a war for no good reason! I do not have weapons of mass destruction - why do you keep coming after me?!?!

Quote:

Because they are not against natural law. perpetual motion machines, free energy devices, and such are against natural law. That's why they're impossible. Same-sex attraction is not only natural, but quite congruent with every known law of nature.

Come on now you know that something doesn't have to be impossible to go against natural law. The same-sex attraction is natural, I believe it is not something that is chosen freely. However, it does not follow that sexual actions between two men or two women are natural.

Quote:

Oh, damn, another one? If that were true, your church would care as little about same-sex relationships as it does about the color of car tires.

Surely, your vision of love is not exclusively tied up with the use of our genitals? This doesn't mean both of us don't care about same-sex relationships, or families, or friendships.