Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

You do spew your bigotry openly and it is disgusting.

No more disgusting than your cloying
and superior attitude that some fictitious
god has given you the right to tell
people how to live their lives. You spread
guilt and misery under the guise of some
twisted version of 'love'. And because
you're so brainwashed, you don't even
see it. That's the scary part.

God's not fictitious nor my love twisted. I'm not trying to lord anything over anyone. You are reading into things that are not there in a vain attempt to discredit or ignore what I have to say. I listen to your lies and falsehoods and misinterpretations and try to point these things out and you just continue to say stupid and mean things. It is you who are brainwashed and you don't even want to see it. It is scary and it is downright sad.

Quote: FrGamble

Everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten. At what age did you learn to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and shout mean offensive comments?

You mean offensive comments like this:

Quote:

I do not want to judge my homosexual brothers and sisters I only want to help them live chastely and inspire them to know that God will always be there for them.

Suppose a parishioner comes to confession and tells you they're in a committed in same-sex relationship, which includes sex. Given the very offensive comment above, what would you counsel them to do in order to obtain absolution?

Quote: Nareed

Suppose a parishioner comes to confession and tells you they're in a committed in same-sex relationship, which includes sex. Given the very offensive comment above, what would you counsel them to do in order to obtain absolution?

I would counsel them first of all to know that God understands their struggle and that they should never beat themselves up or feel in any way that they are unloved by the God who created them and died for them. Secondly, I would talk about other ideas to grow in chaste intimate love with each other that does not include sexual activity. Thirdly, I would encourage them to never be afraid or ashamed to return to the endless font of Divine Mercy that is the confessional and remind them not to judge themselves too harshly. Fourthly, I would thank them for not giving into the cultural message that pretends to love them and encourages them to do whatever they want without considering what is truly natural and best for them. Fifthly, I would reassure them that God wants nothing more than their happiness and by following God's law you will find deep seated peace. Sixthly, I would again remind them that if they do commit sexual acts to again not despair or condemn themselves. Seventhly, I would apply a penance of a couple of Hail Mary's or to read a certain Psalm then absolve them and send him on his way. After he left I would probably cry and pray that God would bless this good man who is struggling to live chastely in a committed homosexual relationship.

Quote: FrGamble

I am not a pervert. A perversion as I understand it is a misuse of something good. I don't think choosing not to have sex is a perversion. It is a reasonable decision many people besides priests make for a variety of reasons.

If you're going to make some sort of natural order argument, then anything but temporary celibacy is definitely a perversion, especially with the focus Catholics seem to put on natural processes.

You should also be ashamed of many of the arguments against Invitro fertilization, at least some of them that I've read, outlining the immorality of a avoiding biological processes that are natural to procreate in an unnatural way.

And remember, I'm talking about choice of lifelong celibacy -- that is not normal natural behavior. It's not a natural property of any living organism. Its a basic premise of life itself.

If you want to address behavior as wrong on natural order argument, just include yourself.

When you stop pretending you can in good conscious make a natural order argument against gay sex, then I'll be interested in what you have to say.

Quote: rxwine

And remember, I'm talking about choice of lifelong celibacy -- that is not normal natural behavior. It's not a natural property of any living organism. Its a basic premise of life itself.

If you want to address behavior as wrong on natural order argument, just include yourself.

When you stop pretending you can in good conscious make a natural order argument against gay sex, then I'll be interested in what you have to say.

Maybe you think that the decision for celibacy is not for a reason? The choice to be celibate is for a good, it is to foster a relationship with Jesus Christ and be more radically available to serve the people of God. It is natural behavior to make this type of choice. When people get married then make the decision to exclusively love that one person for the rest of their lives. Under your thinking you might call this a perversion or not natural.

It is fairly easy to make a natural order argument against gay sex, it is fairly obvious. It seems like you are having a hard time trying to make a similar argument in regard to celibacy. You are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole and it won't work.

Quote: FrGamble

Seventhly, I would apply a penance

I'll count that as the lowlight.

Quote:

After he left I would probably cry and pray that God would bless this good man who is struggling to live chastely in a committed homosexual relationship.

And after they keep coming again and again, month after month with the same confession? Telling you each time how miserable and unbearable they find their life when they try to abstain from having natural sexual relations with the person they love? What then?

Quote: FrGamble

Maybe you think that the decision for celibacy is not for a reason? The choice to be celibate is for a good, it is to foster a relationship with Jesus Christ and be more radically available to serve the people of God. It is natural behavior to make this type of choice. When people get married then make the decision to exclusively love that one person for the rest of their lives. Under your thinking you might call this a perversion or not natural.

It is fairly easy to make a natural order argument against gay sex, it is fairly obvious. It seems like you are having a hard time trying to make a similar argument in regard to celibacy. You are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole and it won't work.

No, your rationalizing is worse than mine. I'm not trying to work from a book to make things fit the book.

Lifelong celibacy is just not a normal life process.

Quote: rxwine

And remember, I'm talking about choice of lifelong celibacy -- that is not normal natural behavior. It's not a natural property of any living organism. Its a basic premise of life itself.

Who cares?

The real perversion in Catholicism is having a bunch of mostly straight, celibate men think they can dictate about intimacy, reproductive health and sexuality to sexually active couples of all orientations.

That's what gives rise to thoughts such as this one: If there is a "God" and he did set up a Hell, it was only as a convenient place to stash all the Catholic priests.

Quote: Nareed

Who cares?

No one. I'm just using FrGamble's argument against him.

I don't give a damn about lifelong celibacy or gay sex as a personal choice. It' the FrG who keeps making the case for natural arguments.

He either needs to admit it's faulty or be called on it continually.