Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

So should we ignore "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service" signs. Are storekeepers being unaccepting by forcing people to act in a certain way.

Absolutely. They will discriminate against
people not following their rules. Just like
your Church does.

Quote: FrGamble

You obviously haven't been in Church in a while.

Over thirty years and counting.

I'm not really cruel enough to relate the story of my last time inside a church. At the very least I'm not angry enough. Not yet.

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Women have real power and influence in my Church in extraordinary ways.

Name one.

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Again take a look at our positions concerning true women's health. We are the only ones saying that a healthy menstrual cycle is a good thing and shouldn't be interrupted unnaturally so that women can more often been objectified and used for sexual pleasure.

And no doubt you have several clinical studies contrasting and comparing all this? Can you cite any?

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So you do not think that men and women are different but equal?

Do you think we can ever find common ground?

Quote: Nareed

They're certainly not accepting barefoot and shirtless customers.

Is it because they hate barefoot and shirtless people? Damn those store owners how dare they discriminate against those who walk barefoot, they are evil in their hearts.

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Let's try a hypothetical:

You come into my house and I tell you to remove a cross hanging around your neck, and you notice I don't demand this of other similar ornaments. Then I tell you not to sit on the furniture, but you notice others can use the furniture freely. Next I serve food, which you have to consume standing up, and I give you no utensils, naturally everyone else has cutlery. When I serve wine, you get water. And when I serve desert, you get nothing. You also notice people don't talk to you, and when you talk to them they don't really answer. I in particular ignore you completely.

Finally I hug you and say "I'm always so glad to welcome you into my home."

Question: if things happened that way, would you feel welcome?

Bonus question: on a scale of 1 to seven trillion, how hypocritical would you rate my "welcoming" statement.

I would not feel welcome and would rate your hypocriticalness at a 5 trillion. I'm sorry if you feel that this is the way you would be treated if I invited you to my Church. The non-hypothetical reality is that you would be perfectly welcomed in my Church. You could sit anywhere you want and there would be no difference in how you were treated than any other non-Catholic visitor to my Church. You could come up and receive a blessing at communion if you wanted to. After Church you are welcome to join us for donuts, coffee, and bagels. You could meet new friends and other people. I could introduce you to some of the Church community who are homosexual and you can ask them any question you would like. Finally I would hug you and say, "I'm always so glad to welcome you to Church, please come again anytime."

Question: if things happened that way, would you feel welcome?

Quote: Nareed

Name one.

My mom. She has been the pastor of a Catholic Church for many years. Yes you read that right. She was the first married Catholic lay woman in our diocese to lead a Church. There are many other women and other lay folk leading Catholic Churches around the nation. She also served as the bishop's secretary and now works at another Catholic institution.

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And no doubt you have several clinical studies contrasting and comparing all this? Can you cite any?

Um...do you really want clinical studies showing that a healthy menstrual cycle is a sign of good health for women? Do you want 1,000 of them?

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Do you think we can ever find common ground?

I think if you stop hate mongering and calling me names and telling me what my motivations are, yes I think we can find common ground.

Quote: FrGamble

My mom. She has been the pastor of a Catholic Church for many years.

Is she ordained? (I already know the answer)

Quote: FrGamble

Is it because they hate barefoot and shirtless people?

Maybe. there's nothing inherently dirty or unsanitary about lacking shoes or shirts. Frankly I'm more concerned with how often people wash or sanitize their hands.

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I would not feel welcome and would rate your hypocriticalness at a 5 trillion.

Really? But I said I welcomed you! Do you doubt my sincerity just because it's not reflected in my actions?

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The non-hypothetical reality is that you would be perfectly welcomed in my Church.

"Step into my parlor," said the spider to the fly.

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Question: if things happened that way, would you feel welcome?

No.

Quote: FrGamble

My mom. She has been the pastor of a Catholic Church for many years.

Good for her.

What authority does she have to set church policy in matters of health, reproduction, sexual relations, etc?

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Um...do you really want clinical studies showing that a healthy menstrual cycle is a sign of good health for women?

I want any that state the use of the pill is contrary to women's health, considering the risks and effects of pregnancy as well.

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Do you want 1,000 of them?

A dozen will do.

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I think if you stop hate mongering and calling me names and telling me what my motivations are, yes I think we can find common ground.

"Names"??

The reason we won't find common ground is because I live for this world and you do not.

Quote: Nareed

Maybe. there's nothing inherently dirty or unsanitary about lacking shoes or shirts. Frankly I'm more concerned with how often people wash or sanitize their hands.

So it must be because they hate all those dirty shirtless and shoeless folks. Can you believe them, what irrational mean bigots!

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Really? But I said I welcomed you! Do you doubt my sincerity just because it's not reflected in my actions?

Yep, your welcome did not match your words. In real life you would find no such insincerity or welcome not backed up by actions in my Church. You might say well then will you let homosexuals get married. The answer of course is no, but I don't see how that is not welcoming. In your hypothetical situation that is like asking, "Could I go up to your bedroom and check it out?" A No answer doesn't mean you are being unwelcoming. Or if someone says, "Hey I like that beautiful work of art hanging over the mantle piece, can I add something to it?" Again No is not being unwelcoming.

Quote: Nareed

Good for her.

What authority does she have to set church policy in matters of health, reproduction, sexual relations, etc?

Maybe it is just my brainwashing speaking but I believe there is no one besides God who sets Church policy in matters of faith and morals. We have to develop teachings that correspond to new technology and the like but they are all rooted in the fundamental teachings of Jesus Christ. Everything from our opposition to the Death Penalty to advocating for a living wage is all grounded in Christ. The Pope nor more than my mom can change or set anything different.

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I want any that state the use of the pill is contrary to women's health, considering the risks and effects of pregnancy as well.

A dozen will do.

Here are some articles you might find interesting and you can go from there to the many studies that back them up. You can also check out the government site about cancer causing substances and see where Birth Control Pills fall on that list.

Dangers of Birth Control

Negative Effects of the Pill

Compelling Evidence of the Danger of the Pill

Should you quit the Pill?

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The reason we won't find common ground is because I live for this world and you do not.

You are close I think to being correct with this statement. The reason we are having a hard time finding common ground is because you live for the world and I live for this world and the next.

Quote: FrGamble

Yep, your welcome did not match your words.

Have you no faith?

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In real life you would find no such insincerity or welcome not backed up by actions in my Church.

But I'd find nothing else.

Do you recall the song "Total Eclipse of the Heart"? Near the end, there's this line which has always been my favorite:

"But every now and then
I'll know you'll always be the only boy
who wanted me the way that I am."

What's wrong with every religion I've ever come into contact with, is they all demand you fit a pre-set mold which is quite simply NOT me. When a social system does this, we call it repressive. That's what religion boils down to. No matter how nice the practitioners appear, they don't want me. They want some not-me in their mold.

This is not all that's wrong with religion, I've written extensively about the topic here. But it's what most fundamentally wrong with it.

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In your hypothetical situation that is like asking, "Could I go up to your bedroom and check it out?" A No answer doesn't mean you are being unwelcoming.

Unless the bedroom is in use, or a total mess, I see no reason to be so rude as not to show it to an interested guest.