Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

I don't think you can justify the burning of anyone at the stake.

So what has the church done to atone for this collective sin?

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and the danger of false ideas in the age before mass communication and the internet.

Do you know how much more dangerous false ideas are with mass communication and the internet??

Quote: Nareed

So what has the church done to atone for this collective sin?

Putting all its efforts in speaking out against such violence that still occurs on a regular basis in our world today.

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Do you know how much more dangerous false ideas are with mass communication and the internet??

Today false ideas are not nearly as dangerous because people can honestly search for and discover the truth.

Quote: FrGamble

Putting all its efforts in speaking out against such violence that still occurs on a regular basis in our world today.

That's a good start.

When will it begin?

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Today false ideas are not nearly as dangerous because people can honestly search for and discover the truth.

You're joking, right?

Quote: Nareed

So, point blank: does burning someone for heresy help them in any way?

When the priests tortured people in
the Spanish Inquisition, they would
tell the victims, over their screams,
that this was for their own good and
the good of their souls.

We know this because the anal Spanish
took copious notes during these sessions,
and they still exist today. Some of the
priests also kept very detailed diaries.

Another simple question.

Wouldn't heaven have an inordinately large number of serious criminal offenders, murderers, rapists, serial killers?

Many of these people knew the day of their death when they were executed which gave them the chance to just go ahead and get their free pass into Heaven.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know about in your state but all the Churches I know of pay a utilities bill for water and sewage and garbage disposal and the like.

I guess you didn't understand? Of course the church is charged for what they consume. But, the pipes did not miraculously appear in the street. The capital to pay for those utility's is taken from every other property owner along the street that is not exempted, therefore increasing what everyone else has to pay because the church is tax free. Make sense? I pay, for your pipe, you get charged a pittance for what you consume or deposit in that pipe. I am not going to play circular reasoning very long with you, you enjoy it to much.

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The reason the property tax is exempted is because of what Churches do that the government cannot pay for.

Whoa, wait a second. The "reason" that "freedom of religion" was included in the constitution is because a group of wealthy [it's always about the money] gentlemen slave owners got together and drew up a contract thinking, "why give England a cut ", we should be able to keep the surplus, from "our" people. So, lobbying for the power to levy fees/taxes on they're chattle, and cut England out of the deal, they talk to the local religious leaders [who are already professionals at wealth extraction] and ask for help. The religious leaders say, " I can swing the deal for you, but what's in it for me?". The church's cut turns out to be "tax exemption, and looking the other way, on some "things". The deal is struck, and each party gets a piece. The constitution was a business decision.

The only people not catching a break, are those that do all the producing. They are working doubly hard, paying for the .gov and the church and can't get their heads above water. They don't have enough energy left to do their own thinking, and hope upon hope that what is being fed them is the truth [it isn't], it's a sales pitch. The problem is the takers got to greedy and now the whole thing is imploding. "Everything is free", until it isn't.

I think the same thing happened back in the day, when Jesus caught on to the scam the Hebrew's were pulling. He seen it, mucho dinero in promising eternity to fools with some extra cash, even if it meant their kids had to skip a few meals. Religion is a racket, just like war. Just like politics. What I see from your posts is you are trying to further benefit the Catholic church, it is in survival mode. I can't imagine the discussions going on in your organization about how to handle discussion that come up about the award winning film "Spotlight". I would guess there has been more than one strategy meeting about it?

You want to blame governments for all the killing, and give religion all the credit for anything good that ever happened. I ask you, how did whatever leaders come to power, if they weren't supported by the majority of believers in each locale?

The person that absolutely did the most for the Kids in Kodiak [B Hinkle] was a confirmed atheist. The different churches all got dressed up on a day [which wasn't the Sabbath] and talked and talked and talked about what could be done to help kids do positive things. The atheist just did it. He got off his ass and did something, while all the faithful talked, and judged, and hypocritted.

Unless the church gets the credit, they deliberately put obstacles in the way. You guys just will not let anything good happen, unless you get something out of it. You want to sit in judgement over others whether you are willing to admit it or not, that ship has sailed.

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Your daycare might be an example of that if it perhaps for students who cannot afford daycare or if the public schools do not or cannot offer it.

This one went in direct competition with the one 4 blocks away that is private enterprise. It is not a dis-advantaged neighborhood.

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I just came back from LA and if the Churches even for a day stopped the multitude of services they provide for the homeless there the government and city would come into a huge crisis.

Some firefighters from LA and local area receive over 100k per year pension. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pension-639019-public-club.html How many of those muni workers feel righteous about the poor having to pay those obscene pension benefits because they go to church? Some of those firefighters take home 200k per year, pension. A lot of those dalmation petting, red fire truck waxing civil servants are historically Catholic, just sayin.

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There is no fee to belong to a Church and anyone can utilize their services for free.

At what price free, Padre? That reminds me of any charity buying commercial time on tv saying, look at this starving, dirty, diseased, pitiful child, just send us 29.95 each month, and we will buy some more commercials feed her and put her through college. Lists of % of donations that go to management https://www.mainstreet.com/article/20-worst-charities-america/page/5 Where does the Catholic corp. rate? Not including advice on how to achieve eternity, what percentage of donations given to your corporation go to help the needy?

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You need to check your stats and review your history. All the so called "religious" violence and wars combined do not equal the destruction cause by governments in the 20th century alone.

Which murdering genocidal maniacs weren't religious?

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The reason the property tax is exempted is because of what Churches do that the government cannot pay for.

Not true at all. Not even close to being true.
There is one reason and one reason only
why churches pay no taxes. Separation
of church and state. Look it up. A churches
tax exemption keeps the affairs of the
church and the affairs of the state out
of each others business.

If any part of the gov't started taxing a
church, it means they could now go in and
look at the inner workings of the church,
which is a violation of the constitution. This
was upheld as recently as the 1070's buy
the Supreme Court.

Quote: Evenbob

Not true at all. Not even close to being true.
There is one reason and one reason only
why churches pay no taxes. Separation
of church and state. Look it up. A churches
tax exemption keeps the affairs of the
church and the affairs of the state out
of each others business.

I don't know why the Constitution's separation of Church and State or the refusal to have a national religion that keeps the government out of the affairs of religion necessitates the tax exemption. Isn't the first and foundational Freedom of our country enough? I would think that the tax exempt status is given for more of a reason.

In regards to petro's post I also have an aversion to circular reason but even less for hateful distortions of truth and history so I don't know how much I can respond to him. One thing I am curious about is if he thought that the sewer systems, etc. would work well if when it ran near any Church, Synagogue, Mosque, or non-profit they just capped the pipes? I also wonder how much he thinks we are talking here about the cost of infrastructure of things like sewers? I also wonder if he thinks that priests or rabbis do not pay income tax like everyone else, because if he thought that he would be wrong? There are many other questions I have concerning his diatribe but they are legion. I would surely invite him to join me and our parish in watching the excellent film "Spotlight" and to discuss it with us.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know why the Constitution's separation of Church and State or the refusal to have a national religion that keeps the government out of the affairs of religion necessitates the tax exemption.
.

Because taxation is an intrusion into every
facet of your life. If the gov't is allowed to
come in and investigate your church and
every detail of what goes on there, the
separation no longer exists. Are you complaining?
Because there is a clamor in the country to
get rid of the exemptions, clear headed
secular voices are at long last being heard.

Quote: petroglyph

The religious leaders say, " I can swing the deal for you, but what's in it for me?". The church's cut turns out to be "tax exemption, and looking the other way, on some "things".

History matters only so much.

Consider that it's not only churches that are exempt from taxes, but any other non-profit organizations as well. And the rationale is the same for all. Not to mention some non-profits receive actual funding from the government in addition to not paying taxes.

And yes, the tax-exempt status can and is abused. But among a long litany of faults and "sins," this isn't really one the Catholic church can be accused of. Look to other Christian churches for that 8and there are plenty), as well as many fringe cults. Such abuse also exists in secular non-profit organizations, charities not excluded.

That the abuse of the tax exempt position should be curbed is self-evident But making churches liable for all taxes is not the way to do it.