Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

We have to firm up our language a little bit here. I hear you say it is okay to forgo sexual relations because I choose to do so in order to hopefully strengthen my relationship to Jesus Christ and be more available to serve others. What do you mean by "gay relations"? If you mean those who realize that the sexual relations between two men or two women is precisely NOT natural and therefore forgo those sexual relations than that is fine. If you refer to those who feel that sexual expression of their orientation to another man is absolutely necessary for intimacy and do not care that it is not natural because they feel it is normal to them then I would disagree. However, I would understand, as of course would the Church and the God we serve the difficult challenges they face and the only compassionate response is love, forgiveness, and empathy. As the Pope once said, "Who am I to judge?" I do not want to judge my homosexual brothers and sisters I only want to help them live chastely and inspire them to know that God will always be there for them. Nareed will say this is any example of when love equals hate. I think it is an example of when love equals truth and compassion.

Nope. Let's start over.

You've been going on with Nareed about the natural biological relationship of a man and a woman. How they are made for each other. Okay, I'm going with that also.

Men and women can reproduce. That is natural. Life reproduces or ceases to exist.

What is not natural is to willfully circumvent that by two gay men having sex for instance. What is also not natural is to willfully circumvent it with lifetime celibacy. You are all willfully denying a natural order.

Notice the word "willfully". In both cases you willfully circumvent the natural order. So, you are both just as guilty of perversion.

So, originally, I just said you were as perverted as a gays having sex with your unnatural celibacy. BUT, I am reasonable.

I will allow your celibacy to just be a choice which is just as ordinary as having gay sex.

Either both are deviant or both are okay. You can't decide your deviance is okay and gay sex isn't because there is no natural thing about lifetime celibacy. LIFE CEASES TO CONTINUE WITHOUT PROCREATION. IT'S ESSENTIAL TO LIFE ITSELF CONTINUING.

The only thing you said in a reasonable defense of celibacy is some case where it may somehow be forced on someone, and I agree if we are going to have mercy on people who cannot willfully follow the natural order, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE FOR PRIESTS.

SO ARE YOU A PERVERT OR NOT?

Or do you choose a reasonable path and accept gay sex as another choice instead of pretending that it is the perversion of the natural order while excluding your own celibacy?

Quote: FrGamble

Just because some of these things people find enjoyable does that mean it is good for you, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually?

Just because something doesn't fit your ultra-narrow worldview does it mean it's bad?

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Is enjoyment the only criteria you have in regards to the licitness and naturalness of an action sexual or otherwise?

Not the only criteria, no, but an important one. A more important one is mutual enjoyment. We agree sex serves as a means for a couple to bond. It therefore goes without saying couples should engage in the kind of sex they find most enjoyable, rather than an arbitrarily prescribed routine they may or may not care for.

What's natural is for a couple to have sex they find mutually enjoyable. The specifics of the act is a private matter concerning the couple in question and no one else.

Quote: FrGamble

Nareed will say this is any example of when love equals hate. I think it is an example of when love equals truth and compassion.

Nareed would say that's a perfect example of "Oppression is Love," and "All people are equal, but Catholic, cisgender, straight people are more equal than others."

Nareed would also have this to say:

Quote:

I do not want to judge my homosexual brothers and sisters I only want to help them live chastely and inspire them to know that God will always be there for them.

I would rather have bigots spew their bigotry openly, than try to cloak it with fake and hypocritical kindness. If this is what Christianity means, then not only do I want no part of it, but it's my firm and reasoned opinion the whole putrid, wretched edifice built on the bones of Jesus should be wiped out completely.

You do spew your bigotry openly and it is disgusting. You are unreasonably saying you know the interior of my heart and the intentions of the Church when you are simply clouded in your emotions. I forgive you and I know being confronted with a different point of view can be challenging. If you can't have a civil discussion or debate about these things without assuming the other side only wants to oppress or hate you then you need to reexamine your position.

Quote: FrGamble

You are unreasonably saying you know the interior of my heart and the intentions of the Church

I don't know what your intentions are. I don't care.

I know what results from approaching people "kindly" and pumping them full of guilt and feelings of inadequacy and failure for not living up to an impossible and oppressive standard, based on the prejudices of a culture long dead.

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I forgive you and I know being confronted with a different point of view can be challenging.

You can take your forgiveness and shove it.

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If you can't have a civil discussion or debate about these things without assuming the other side only wants to oppress or hate you then you need to reexamine your position.

I can't pretend to grant you the courtesy of having a valid point, while you argue how lovingly you go about destroying other people's souls.

Quote: rxwine

SO ARE YOU A PERVERT OR NOT?

I am not a pervert. A perversion as I understand it is a misuse of something good. I don't think choosing not to have sex is a perversion. It is a reasonable decision many people besides priests make for a variety of reasons.

Quote: Nareed

I know what results from approaching people "kindly" and pumping them full of guilt and feelings of inadequacy and failure for not living up to an impossible and oppressive standard, based on the prejudices of a culture long dead.

I truly know the results from approaching people kindly and sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ who frees them from guilt and feelings of inadequacy and helps them reach their true potential and to find a deep seated happiness in knowing and loving themselves, God, and others.

I also know the results from approaching people "kindly" and pumping them full of license and feelings that what ever makes them happy they should pursue without reflection and consideration of why they feel that way. This liberal mindset of acceptance over truth and ease over love destroys peoples' lives and their souls.

At what semester in Seminary do you learn to employ the "I am rubber and you're glue" argument?

Everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten. At what age did you learn to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and shout mean offensive comments?

Quote: FrGamble

Everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten. At what age did you learn to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and shout mean offensive comments?

It would seem despite your best efforts, I'm not learning this.