The Biden Presidency 2021

Quote: RonC

I was speaking of the disappointments I have with Biden's performance as President; there are seven zillion posts about Trump here; he is no longer President.

He has not done well on the coronavirus issue as a leader, which I have written about at length. Instead of being someone who unites us, he has become a great divider. He does not understand the importance of a leader leading; leading is not just hollering in a microphone and calling people names. I didn't like that when Trump did it and, just because Biden does it in weird little whispers and loud outbursts instead of nastiness, it has the same effect...it turns people away.

Biden, Biden, Biden....he is the President. Let's talk about him and, for those who try to set the bar as Trump, how about setting it higher. Why? Simply because that is what this guy promised us.

That's a fair point. That said, I don't set the bar anywhere just because I have no expectations for Biden whatsoever. Not only am I unsure that he knows what's going on half the time, but in terms of unification, he'd probably just be wasting whatever breath he has left trying to unify anything with the die-hard Trumpers.

That's just the way of it. It could be that social media and mass media are the most to blame, but the country is basically just such that the two sides aren't even inclined to pretend as though they want to get along anymore.

Best case scenario I can envision is maybe two reasonable human beings, preferably under the age of 70, go at it in a civil campaign for the 2024 Election...but I seriously doubt such a thing is going to happen.

Quote: rxwine

What's your basis for saying impeachment is illegitimate. Did they recently remove it from the Constitution?

My basis is that they had no real justification to make the attempt the first time around. Just because you can get a majority of people to claim to believe something does not make that thing true. A majority of people once believed the Earth was flat. A majority of people, according to a recent study, also believe that there is a God of one kind or another.

ADDED: Also, what RonC said.

Quote: RonC

Quote: rxwine

Quote: Mission146

Quote: rxwine

Quote: Mission146

"Not my President," is a clear message of unification and solidarity that clearly shows that they accepted the Election. Hell, so many Democrats were talking about Impeachment before Trump was even sworn into office that it becomes clear that they did not accept the election. They just figured they'd have the opportunity to get him out via Impeachment/Removal, despite the fact that the Removal part never had a chance.

You can want a president out of office for 4 years straight without ever questioning the vote count. That's exactly how I felt about it. It's two different things.

Two different ways of using an illegitimate means to effectuate a result, but yeah, one is arguably worse than the other.

What's your basis for saying impeachment is illegitimate. Did they recently remove it from the Constitution?

You can impeach a ham sandwich (well, one that inhabits certain offices). All you need is enough votes. The charges only need to be made; not actually proven. The impeachments were political stunts and did not progress to conviction and removal because the Senate requirement for that is more than just a simple majority. It was dumb to have an impeachment as a pandemic was being discovered and it as even dumber to have one after the election. Of course, the leftists will disagree...

Well, I guess polls should be taken before all trials of the President to see if wrongdoing resonates with the public to create enough pressure, because that's the way a punitive system should be done. {and that's sarcasm}

Quote: Mission146

My basis is that they had no real justification to make the attempt the first time around. Just because you can get a majority of people to claim to believe something does not make that thing true. A majority of people once believed the Earth was flat. A majority of people, according to a recent study, also believe that there is a God of one kind or another.

ADDED: Also, what RonC said.

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Only the minority makes something true? Who decides? Someone has to decide?

Quote: rxwine

Well, I guess polls should be taken before all trials of the President to see if wrongdoing resonates with the public to create enough pressure, because that's the way a punitive system should be done. {and that's sarcasm}

Clinton had sexual relations with a White House intern and then lied about it and did not get removed. I'm not saying he should have been removed for that, but good golly, Miss Molly, by today's standards that sexual congress couldn't have even been considered consensual because of the power dynamic, or whatever. There's no way that's not getting you fired from anywhere these days, much less highest Government office in the land.

That said, I wasn't in favor of Impeachment/Removal for Clinton and I found the case against Trump to be even more spurious. I know that everything along these lines is, to some degree, subjective---but a justified Impeachment/Removal effort would be at least for something close enough to objectively bad that it wouldn't be split almost perfectly by party line.

That's literally why the process of Impeachment/Removal of a President exists---they basically figured if you can get enough of the Senate (likely some of which would otherwise have a favorable view of the President) to vote to Remove him, then it must be a pretty darn serious offense. Serious enough that, like Nixon, the writing would pretty clearly be on the wall.

As opposed to, you know, a political stunt done mostly to rile up the crybabies on the Far Left.

Quote: rxwine

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Only the minority makes something true? Who decides? Someone has to decide?

The key words were, "Claim to believe." As in, it is my opinion that some number of the Democrats would not have normally held that Donald Trump's conduct was serious enough to warrant an Impeachment...and certainly would not have if the POTUS had been a Democrat.

You can get a majority of people to claim to believe something that is, objectively, a lie (which I'm not saying the Impeachment was a flat lie)...but that doesn't make it true.

Quote: rxwine

Well, I guess polls should be taken before all trials of the President to see if wrongdoing resonates with the public to create enough pressure, because that's the way a punitive system should be done. {and that's sarcasm}

If a party chooses to waste time on a failed attempt to remove the President, that is their choice. Unless they have a real case (Nixon would have been a real case) and/or 67 Senators, the chances of success are minimal at best. Some people are satisfied that a President was impeached. He was. Perhaps that was the whole point of both exercises. Just because I think they could have used their time better doesn't mean they had to do so.

Quote: Mission146

The key words were, "Claim to believe." As in, it is my opinion that some number of the Democrats would not have normally held that Donald Trump's conduct was serious enough to warrant an Impeachment...and certainly would not have if the POTUS had been a Democrat.

You can get a majority of people to claim to believe something that is, objectively, a lie (which I'm not saying the Impeachment was a flat lie)...but that doesn't make it true.

For example, a majority of registered Republicans (at least, at one point) claimed to actually believe that there was widespread voter fraud and an effort to outright steal the election.

Quote: Mission146

For example, a majority of registered Republicans (at least, at one point) claimed to actually believe that there was widespread voter fraud and an effort to outright steal the election.

I don't recall that. I believe every election has had some fraud, probably negligible.

Quote: DRich

I don't recall that. I believe every election has had some fraud, probably negligible.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-2020-election-poll-trump-biden

53% makes a majority. That poll was taken in May, mind you. I'm not saying that the poll was not skewed to produce that result (how would I know?), but based on people who I have spoken to...I would say that it's been roughly 50/50 amongst Right-leaners that there was enough in the way of fraud that was such to change the result.

I do agree that almost every election almost certainly has non-zero, though negligible, fraud. As Gandler and I were discussing, that's why I favor Voter ID...at least takes away one point of b$%^ing from whoever would claim an election was outright stolen.