Who Gets the Ring?

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November 9th, 2024 at 1:20:17 PM permalink
GenoDRPh
Member since: Aug 24, 2023
Threads: 1
Posts: 1557
For 6 decades, it has been the law in MA that the donor is entitled to an engagement ring back if the wedding is called off, as the ring is a conditional gift , but only if the donor was "without fault". In 2016. Mr Johnson met Ms Settino and they started dating. Mr. Jonson lavished Ms Settino with gifts of jewels, fancy clothes, luxury travel and even offered to pay for cosmetic dental procedures. Mr Johnson subsequently proposed with a $70,000 engagement ring, bought 2 wedding bands and made the first payment to the dentist for the surgery, which involved yanking her upper teeth out.

At some point, Mr Johnson found some texts and emails that strongly implied infidelity, so Mr Johnson called of the wedding and ended the engagement and demanded the ring back. There was no infidelity so Ms Settino refused. Johnson sued for the rings back, and Settino counter-sued for the balance of the dental surgery due. The trial court judge ruled in HER favor, saying it was was Johnson's fault he called off the wedding and gave possession of the engagement ring and one wedding band to her, as well as the balance due-plus interest-for the surgery. He appealed, and the appeals court ruled that he was entitled to the ring and bpoth wedding bands backs, but still on the hook for the money and interest for the surgery. She then appealed to the MA Supreme Judicial Court, who on Friday ruled....

...engagements are a trial period to see if marriage is viable and successful, and sometimes they aren't through no fault of either party. So, from now on, if the wedding does not occur, the donor is entitled to the ring back in all cases. So Mr. Johnson is entitled to the $70,000 engagement ring back, plus both wedding bands. He is still, however, on the hook for the dental surgery plus interest.

Question for you all: Who should get the ring after a failed engagement?

https://www.mass.gov/doc/johnson-v-settino-sjc-13555/download


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November 9th, 2024 at 3:13:25 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 5457
Quote: GenoDRPh

Question for you all: Who should get the ring after a failed engagement?


...


In my opinion the ring is a gift and should never be expected back.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
November 9th, 2024 at 3:29:06 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 76
Posts: 12501
Quote: DRich
In my opinion the ring is a gift and should never be expected back.

I watch Judge Judy
She considers the ring a conditional gift
She always orders that the ring be returned
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
November 9th, 2024 at 3:37:25 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 5457
Quote: terapined
I watch Judge Judy
She considers the ring a conditional gift
She always orders that the ring be returned


I think most men disagree with me.

Unless it is specifically specified at the time of the transaction I couldn't see why it would be expected to be conditional.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
November 9th, 2024 at 3:45:31 PM permalink
GenoDRPh
Member since: Aug 24, 2023
Threads: 1
Posts: 1557
Quote: DRich
I think most men disagree with me.

Unless it is specifically specified at the time of the transaction I couldn't see why it would be expected to be conditional.


"Will you marry me?" isn't a specified condition?

I was once advised to never ever give a woman a ring of any type on her birthday or the holidays, lest she get the wrong idea it was an engagement ring. I was also advised to never ever propose on her birthday or the holidays, lest she never give the ring back if the proposal ends, thinking the ring was a birthday gift or holiday gift.
November 9th, 2024 at 4:35:24 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 136
Posts: 19214
Serves the dude right. A rich guy like that needs a wife like a fish needs a Harley.
I tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution
November 9th, 2024 at 4:37:15 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 199
Posts: 20101
I remember the "Dear Abby" advice. But if the reverse was true, and someone gave me a gift as part of a larger contract, I would feel obligated to give it back if the contract becomes null and void.

That's not saying I wouldn't like to keep something valuable, like most people would. But it doesn't seem right to me when I think of it that way.

I gave one of my girlfriends a sapphire necklace. That was gift and I didn't expect it back when we broke up. And likewise, she didn't get anything back she gave me.
Deep State = sensible people trying to derail the sociopath
November 9th, 2024 at 6:55:26 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 5457
Quote: GenoDRPh
"Will you marry me?" isn't a specified condition?



Not for a ring. It is not even mentioned in the statement. How about "Will you marry me and if you do you can keep the ring, if you do not you must return the ring". I think that might be sufficient but I am not an expert in contract law.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
November 9th, 2024 at 6:58:25 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 54
Posts: 5457
Quote: rxwine


I gave one of my girlfriends a sapphire necklace. That was gift and I didn't expect it back when we broke up. And likewise, she didn't get anything back she gave me.


I can not imagine giving anyone anything and expect to have it returned unless it was discussed.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
November 9th, 2024 at 8:12:08 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4504
I have mixed feelings on this. I get the condition gift argument, and probably generally agree. But, at the same time, asking for a ring back from a financee must be super awkward. But, I guess if you are speaking of a 70k+ ring, that is worth fighting for.

The case in question, sounds like she completely used him. I think the court was generally right, you can't really get back gifts (including cash for medical procedures,) but I get the right, especially if the wedding is cancelled.
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