ICE- Authoritarian or community based?

Quote: Gandler

Again, many (most?) of the people being targeted did not come over the border illegally, they came here with visa, which got revoked, expired, modified, etc...

Do you think all the Somalis and Koreans being arrested in MN snuck across the border? Or did they just fly here and not leave?

About 50% of all illegal immigrants came in the U.S. here legally and never left or overstayed. My suspicion, in MN that number is far higher, because the populations in MN are not the demographics that would sneak across the border based on geography.

And, yes I know MN borders Canada, very few illegal crossings in this area due to the weather and geography, it's just too risky. It happens, but it's like a statistical non-issue. I would guess something like 90% of illegals in MN came here legally initially, so borders have almost nothing to do with it.

So if I enter a store legally, but then go on to steal stuff, it’s no big deal?

Should the defense attorney opined ’but he originally entered the store legally’

Similar answer to Rx. Guy breaks into a store, smashes stuff. Cleans up some. ‘But he was useful after he did the damage’.

Quote: missedhervee

What you say about illegals working in construction is true; also agriculture, meat packing and in restaurants.

It would be best to give them permission to work here, pay taxes, but NOT participate in voting or entitlement benefits such as welfare and Social Security.

End "anchor baby" or "marrying a citizen" paths to citizenship
o
A "worker visa" program which can be renewed annually provided there are no criminal incidents.

Well, right now they can't and don't vote. If they pay payroll taxes-FICA, Fed withholding and whatever state payroll taxes, they are eligible for medicare and social security since they paid into those programs. Unless you wish to exempt them from paying FICA and then ban them from medicare and social security.

Quote: SOOPOO

So if I enter a store legally, but then go on to steal stuff, it’s no big deal?

Should the defense attorney opined ’but he originally entered the store legally’

Similar answer to Rx. Guy breaks into a store, smashes stuff. Cleans up some. ‘But he was useful after he did the damage’.

That is an interesting analogy that I will pick apart a bit.

If somebody entered a store legally and stole, yes that is illegal obviously. If they are being charged with a trespass, then maybe it is worth establishing that they entered legally because that may help with at least one of the charges. But, I see your point.

However, a more common example would be, somebody enters a large store legally, the store closes while they are browsing, and they get locked in before they can exit. Yes, they are technically trespassing and broke the posted rules. But, they are not doing anything nefarious, they just lost track of time and/or got the closing times mixed up. Somebody getting stuck in a store because they were confused is far different than somebody breaking in to steal, or even entering legally and intentionally staying after closing to haul stuff off.

As for breaking stuff it depends on intentions. Intentionally damaging property is different than an accident. And, how you behave after an accident matters, so if you offer to pay and help clean, that is far better than breaking something and running off. So I would argue yes this does matter.

____________________________________________________


Sometimes people enter a country with good intentions, and life happens. You also travel a lot per your posts, have you ever been a little dishonest or forgetful at customs entering or leaving a country?

Maybe you have a couple packs of cigarettes over the limit, maybe you have a restricted tobacco product (like if you dip, bringing smokeless tobacco into much of Europe and Asia,) maybe you have some local food that is not supposed to be removed from the country when you leave, maybe you have photos on your phone of an artifact that you promise would not be on your phone, maybe you have more currency than you are "remembering" you have, etc.... If you tell me you have never made a mistake at customs or border control in any country in the world, whether intentional or not, I do not believe you. And, this does not make you a bad person, it just shows, we all have our own agenda when we travel.

This does not mean we are going to or coming from X Country to cause harm, we are just living our life.


_____________________

The vast majority of people ICE is picking up have no criminal record except for their immigration violation that they are being deported for. The narrative about violent criminals is overblown. 75% have no criminal record other than their visa or border violation. Of the 25%, the majority is just parking/traffic violations, less than 5% of targets are violent (and even "violent" means anything even vaguely violent like being in a bar fight....) So for every mug shot Nome posts of some 30 year old gangster who kidnapped and abused people and shot multiple people, there are 10 people who did nothing other than overstay their visa or have a few unpaid parking tickets.... The idea that they are only targeting "the worst of the worst" is simply a lie.

In WTF news
Things are getting heated out there
A dumb MAGA chump drives by a student protest
He starts arguing with a teen girl
He becomes so infuriated, he gets out of his truck and takes her to the ground and starts hitting her!!!!!!!!!
WTF
Que the video going viral
As the group pulls him off, it's hilarious he keeps the red hat trying to escape the scrum
https://www.reddit.com/r/50501/s/CkqTJPiV5g
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1MoksoD351/

Perfect recruit for ICE

Quote: terapined1

In WTF news
Things are getting heated out there
A dumb MAGA chump drives by a student protest
He starts arguing with a teen girl
He becomes so infuriated, he gets out of his truck and takes her to the ground and starts hitting her!!!!!!!!!
WTF
Que the video going viral
As the group pulls him off, it's hilarious he keeps the red hat trying to escape the scrum
https://www.reddit.com/r/50501/s/CkqTJPiV5g
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1MoksoD351/

Perfect recruit for ICE

It is well known that MAGA guys abuse teenagers routinely, so this is not shocking at all.

Like most he will probably be cheered for "owning the libs.". Gotta love MAGA...

No, Gandler, I don’t break customs laws when crossing borders. I’m EXTREMELY risk averse! I always knew the limits and stuck by them. When I bought wifey an expensive ring abroad we filled out whatever forms were needed and paid whatever tax or duty we had to. I haven’t taken an illegal drug in 45 years so that’s not an issue either. Heck, I don’t even drive drunk, limiting to two drinks maximum if driving.

All irrelevant. And what is relevant is this…. Either you are here legally or illegally. You make it seem that someone who ‘overstayed their visa’ should just be able to stay because they initially came here legally! Do you realize how stupid that is? Trust me, the VAST MAJORITY of them know EXACTLY when their visa expires, and SHOULD plan for their exit before that date. But you think the date on the visa is irrelevant? Once here can’t forcibly deport them?

WHY HAVE LAWS?

Quote: SOOPOO

Similar answer to Rx. Guy breaks into a store, smashes stuff. Cleans up some. ‘But he was useful after he did the damage’.

I've never said anything about damaging anything to enter since in many cases it's simply crossing an imaginary line.

How can you argue without feeling stupid, i.e., if crossing the border is such a serious crime, what convicted felon Trump did must be worth imprisonment and possibly many years in prison.

I believe crime & punishment must not be unbalanced so if people want to keep repeating nonsense about crossing a border is so serious to them, then I'll pile on the proper equivalency.

Republicans won't even impeach him for it.

Quote: rxwine

I've never said anything about damaging anything to enter since in many cases it's simply crossing an imaginary line.

How can you argue without feeling stupid, i.e., if crossing the border is such a serious crime, what convicted felon Trump did must be worth imprisonment and possibly many years in prison.

I believe crime & punishment must not be unbalanced so if people want to keep repeating nonsense about crossing a border is so serious to them, then I'll pile on the proper equivalency.

Republicans won't even impeach him for it.

I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll allow you to put Trump in jail if you allow me to deport all here illegally?

Quote: SOOPOO

No, Gandler, I don’t break customs laws when crossing borders. I’m EXTREMELY risk averse! I always knew the limits and stuck by them. When I bought wifey an expensive ring abroad we filled out whatever forms were needed and paid whatever tax or duty we had to. I haven’t taken an illegal drug in 45 years so that’s not an issue either. Heck, I don’t even drive drunk, limiting to two drinks maximum if driving.

All irrelevant. And what is relevant is this…. Either you are here legally or illegally. You make it seem that someone who ‘overstayed their visa’ should just be able to stay because they initially came here legally! Do you realize how stupid that is? Trust me, the VAST MAJORITY of them know EXACTLY when their visa expires, and SHOULD plan for their exit before that date. But you think the date on the visa is irrelevant? Once here can’t forcibly deport them?

WHY HAVE LAWS?

You have never been partying in some remote tropical place, and just decided not to get on your approved exit flight and just stay another week and hope for the best? And, would the country be entitled to dispatch a militarized deportation team to raid your hotel for this? People do this all of the time, most countries don't care at all because they like if people are staying locally blowing money, even if it is a violation...

I never said we can't forcibly deport people. But, be honest about it, border security is a very minor factor in the situation at hand.

Quote: Gandler

You have never been partying in some remote tropical place, and just decided not to get on your approved exit flight and just stay another week and hope for the best? And, would the country be entitled to dispatch a militarized deportation team to raid your hotel for this? People do this all of the time, most countries don't care at all because they like if people are staying locally blowing money, even if it is a violation...

I never said we can't forcibly deport people. But, be honest about it, border security is a very minor factor in the situation at hand.

No! Never overstayed a visa.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I think border security is a very important issue for our country. And a big factor in the illegal alien population. I’m not dismissing the ‘overstaying visa’ problem. But why can’t we fix both at the same time? Deport all here illegally.