Original Sin?

I think you are beginning to see that the purpose of prayer is not to get what you want. God is not your personal genie, He is your friend. Prayer is about communicating with your friend and forming a relationship with God. That is a prayer that is always answered. Your continuing assertation that there is no God, which you offer no reason or evidence to support, cannot be the reason why there is no reason to pray or your reason for rejecting sin. It smacks of being circular or beginning an arguement with your conclusion. Either show why there is no God or come up with another or better reason why prayer doesn't work or there is no sin. Blithy repeating that there is no God without reason does not advance the discussion or your arguement.

Quote: FrGamble

I think you are beginning to see that the purpose of prayer is not to get what you want. God is not your personal genie,.

I never said he WAS! I report on Xtions
like my sister in law who pray to get
whatever she wants. I've known what
prayer is about in religion, in all
religions, for 40 years. Why do you assume
atheists are clueless idiots.

'Beginning to see', can you be a little more
condescending? I never pray BECAUSE I KNOW
what it's about, and it's of no interest to me.
First you find evidence for a god, then you
pray to him. Praying to a god just for the heck
of it is a waste of time. I don't pan for gold
in the creek that runs thru my property because
the experts in such things say in MI there is
no gold worth panning for. No evidence of
pannable gold. By your logic I should pan
anyway, because you found gold in the Yukon.

You found your god, goody for you, enjoy him.
He's your 'personal' god in more ways than you
can possibly imagine.

Quote: Evenbob

Praying to a god just for the heck
of it is a waste of time. I don't pan for gold
in the creek that runs thru my property because
the experts in such things say in MI there is
no gold worth panning for.

I'm telling you there is gold in them der hills! As an expert I assure you that prayer will help you discover the greatest treasure there could ever be.

Quote: FrGamble

It corresponds to the Lord's emphasis on humility and the quote reminds me of His famous exhortation to not pursue gaining the whole world, with its wealth and power, only to quickly die and then lose not only that but eternal life as well.

Not even close.

Sagan is making the point that the universe is effing big, and full of potential, but at the same time we're confined, for the time being, to a pale blue dot. Therefore we should work to make living here pleasant.

But think about it. The potential opportunities for learning and science are obvious. The potential for new wealth, new living space, new frontiers, new horizons is limitless, too. But we won't get to any of it so long as we try to compete for who's top dog, or "alpha male" of a fraction of a dot. Or to quote Tsiolkovsky "A planet is the cradle of mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever."

Quote:

This could be a big part of the problem.

No, that was part of the solution. When I realized even the lowest pulp fiction had better content than prayer, ditching religion became desirable.

Quote: Nareed

Not even close.

Sagan is making the point that the universe is effing big, and full of potential, but at the same time we're confined, for the time being, to a pale blue dot. Therefore we should work to make living here pleasant.

But think about it. The potential opportunities for learning and science are obvious. The potential for new wealth, new living space, new frontiers, new horizons is limitless, too. But we won't get to any of it so long as we try to compete for who's top dog, or "alpha male" of a fraction of a dot. Or to quote Tsiolkovsky "A planet is the cradle of mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever."

Oh, okay. I feel like we might be getting a little away from the thread topic but I just watched Arrival and thought it was a very good movie. It seems that in a lot of the movies I like about aliens they are always coming to help us in some way. Be it Interstellar, Arrival, Contact, the aliens all want us to work together so we can do great things. Since there aren't any aliens, at least who have visited us yet, that thought is actually coming from ourselves. Why can't we all just get along and stop waiting for aliens to inspire us to do what we know we should do and can do. Think of the amazing things we could do if all of humanity was united to serve each other and help each other - the potential opportunities are endless. Yet this is where Original Sin rears its ugly head and someone feels they have to have more than everyone else and be the top dog. We do need leaders, but servant leaders who only desire the success of the common good.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm telling you there is gold in them der hills! As an expert I assure you that prayer will help you discover the greatest treasure there could ever be.

Beer?

Quote: FrGamble

As an expert I assure you that prayer will help you .

You can't guarantee anything, far from
it. Prayer has disappointed far more people
that it has helped. People pray because
they been taught to, not because it does
them any real good. They feel like they've
performed a duty, that's all. It's a habit
they're compelled to perform.

Quote: FrGamble

We do need leaders, but servant leaders who only desire the success of the common good.

Yeah, the Church would love that. The
Vatican is in denial that their glory
days are far behind them, from now
on the task is to hold it all together, not
prevail.

Quote: Evenbob

You can't guarantee anything, far from
it.

As confidently as a doctor can recommend a certain treatment to help your body is as sure as I can guarantee you that establishing a regular practice of prayer will not only allow you to establish a relationship with God but help you in every area of your life.

Quote: stinkingliberal

Beer?

Even better beer made by monks!