Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Most people are not spiritual but they
like to follow people who are. These
'spiritual' leaders are often off their
rocker, like Jesus. Were any of the
disciples of Jesus really all that spiritual?
They glommed onto the cracked guy
and followed him around, but that's
what certain people do. Look at Jim
Jones, he got hundreds to drink the
poison Kool Aid. There are always
people just as nutty as the nut they
follow around.

I disagree. I think Jesus was a good man. I also think that he was much more of a revolutionary than the Bible gives him credit for. The Christian myth was created to glorify the story of a Jewish rabbi who got a little too vocal for the local Roman authorities, who dealt with him the way they usually dealt with agitators. The people who followed him found his message appealing in what was a pretty brutal world. Does this mean he was some kind of divine being? No. He was a man. That makes his message that much more poignant and valuable in my book.

I do think his fundamental message was indeed "Hey, how about we all be nice to each other for a change." He got nailed to a tree for it, and 2000 years later, our glorious country has examined that proposition and said, "Naaah!"

Quote: Evenbob

Most people are not spiritual but they
like to follow people who are. These
'spiritual' leaders are often off their
rocker, like Jesus. Were any of the
disciples of Jesus really all that spiritual?
They glommed onto the cracked guy
and followed him around, but that's
what certain people do. Look at Jim
Jones, he got hundreds to drink the
poison Kool Aid. There are always
people just as nutty as the nut they
follow around.

I just want FrG to see the overwhelming trend of where real answers come from. It's not even close. The best they can do is look for more difficult questions and claim them as the realm of the spiritual.

Quote: Evenbob

He's saying it's simply not worth it to
prove the earth is not flat yet again.
It would be a waste of time, you would
just throw you apron over your head
and run the other way with your hands
over your ears.

I'm not saying prove the world is round. I'm saying prove abiogenesis. My position is negative. It's up to the person making the claim, not me to provide proof (which no one can). Kinda like your position on Fr.G proving God. Actually exactly like your position on Fr.G proving God.

Quote: stinkingliberal

I disagree. I think Jesus was a good man.

Didn't say he wasn't. He also told people
he was the son of god, did magic tricks
and said they were 'miracles', raised
the dead, another parlor trick, pretty
much was off his rocker most of the
time.

Quote: pew

I'm not saying prove the world is round.

Really? Seems like you are, wanting to
argue settled science and all.

Quote: Evenbob

Really? Seems like you are, wanting to
argue settled science and all.

I don't want to argue, and the science is far from settled. It's more conjecture and magical thinking than "settled science". Just saying it doesn't make it so. Please come up with some evidence to back your belief other than a "God in the gaps" explanation.

It's possible that everything can be answered by science. Sure there is no way (that I know of) to go observe the orginal Big Bang.

But, if you can create a micro Universe within a chamber -- or perhaps out in space, that could answer the process question.

(Nareed may know why that may never be possible, but I don't)

Quote: pew

I don't want to argue, and the science is far from settled. It's more conjecture and magical thinking than "settled science". Just saying it doesn't make it so. Please come up with some evidence to back your belief other than a "God in the gaps" explanation.

Actually, magical thinking is the exact opposite of science. And belief has no place in rational thought.

Science, being honest, unlike religion, classifies its hypotheses as "theories" when they cannot be conclusively proved. However, those theories about the origins of the universe have a pretty hefty block of data to support them. Now, if only Christians would admit that what they have is a "theory of God"...

Quote: stinkingliberal

Actually, magical thinking is the exact opposite of science. And belief has no place in rational thought.

Science, being honest, unlike religion, classifies its hypotheses as "theories" when they cannot be conclusively proved. However, those theories about the origins of the universe have a pretty hefty block of data to support them. Now, if only Christians would admit that what they have is a "theory of God"...

Of course Christians have a "theory of God". What's the point?

Quote: stinkingliberal

Actually, magical thinking is the exact opposite of science. And belief has no place in rational thought.

Science, being honest, unlike religion, classifies its hypotheses as "theories" when they cannot be conclusively proved. However, those theories about the origins of the universe have a pretty hefty block of data to support them. Now, if only Christians would admit that what they have is a "theory of God"...

The idea that life springs from inorganic chemicals in a naturalistic universe is magical thinking even if the person thinking it is an honest scientist. If indeed there are honest scientists.