Original Sin?

Quote: rxwine

But, if you can create a micro Universe within a chamber -- or perhaps out in space, that could answer the process question.

Well, you can't do that.

But you can create conditions and particles similar to those at the time of the Big Bang in particle accelerators (no, the LHC wasn't built just to detect the Higgs Boson).

And there are also predictions, though these have some caveats attached sometimes. So if the Big Bang happened in such a way at such a time, what would you expect to see now? Then you go look for that and see whether you find it.

This is exciting because many predictions are wrong, which helps you avoid whole areas of research now proved unnecessary.

Quote: Nareed

Last I checked, we could observe the Universe.

Yes you can observe the universe but you cannot observe that which created or caused the universe to be. That is why science is rightfully science on spiritual matters.

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1) You sound like Descartes, I believe it was, who painted a very limited picture of what future scientific discoveries could possibly be.

Your compliments lately will get you everywhere, thank you. No seriously the biggest problem with science is when it is unlimited. That quickly will bring us nuclear weapons, human experiments, or maybe most dangerously when it takes its observations and makes philosophical and theological statements about them.

Quote: FrGamble

No seriously the biggest problem with science is when it is unlimited.

No, the biggest problem is when religion
is given unlimited power, like the Church
had for 500 years. Science was quashed,
the god myth went on a rampage.

Quote: rxwine

I just want FrG to see the overwhelming trend of where real answers come from. It's not even close. The best they can do is look for more difficult questions and claim them as the realm of the spiritual.

So much depends on what you consider real answers. If you think the only real answers are related to the scientific menthod then yes science can and does answer such things. By FAR the vast overwhelming amount of questions we have deal not with the migratory pattern of butterflies or what stars are made of. The real questions we ask are: Why am I so lonely? Am I lovable? Does life have meaning? Why am I unhappy? Does she love me? Can I trust him? Is there a God? Is there life after death? These real questions have real answers and science has never given an answer to them.

Religion - 1 zillion
Science - zero

Quote: Evenbob

Science was quashed,
the god myth went on a rampage.

The only myth here is your foolishness. Please read something, science flourishes under the Church.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes you can observe the universe but you cannot observe that which created or caused the universe to be. That is why science is rightfully science on spiritual matters.

The beginning of the universe, if any, is a factual, scientific matter, not a spiritual one.

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Your compliments lately will get you everywhere, thank you.

I passionately dislike Descartes. For a philosopher, he was a good mathematician. Other than that, he's the target of one of my favorite jokes.

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No seriously the biggest problem with science is when it is unlimited. That quickly will bring us nuclear weapons, human experiments, or maybe most dangerously when it takes its observations and makes philosophical and theological statements about them.

Well, one can argue nuclear weapons proved to be a force for geopolitical stability from 1945 until at least recently. The human experiments you no doubt refer to were poorly conducted and yielded no useful or meaningful data, and had no real connection with science or medicine. Real science does involve experimentation on humans. I don't see how you can develop new drugs without at some point testing them on people.

Quote: FrGamble

The real questions we ask are: Why am I so lonely? Am I lovable? Does life have meaning? Why am I unhappy? Does she love me? Can I trust him?

So you never read Ann Landers? She answered these
questions every day.

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Is there a God? Is there life after death?

These questions are easy. No god. We reincarnate
after death. Case closed.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes you can observe the universe but you cannot observe that which created or caused the universe to be. That is why science is rightfully science on spiritual matters.

And who would aggrandize themselves to put limits on what science can explore or discover?And how would such limits be enforced? We probably shouldn't go back to the burning heretics thing.

You're badly mistaken in your premise that science leads to unfettered evil. It has, in fact, led to profound good--vast improvements in the human condition. All the theology in the world can't replace that.

Quote: Nareed

The beginning of the universe, if any, is a factual, scientific matter, not a spiritual one.

It is not a scientific matter at all but it is a factual and logical matter.

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I passionately dislike Descartes. For a philosopher, he was a good mathematician. Other than that, he's the target of one of my favorite jokes.

I just simply dislike his philosophy. He was a faithful Christian that I don't think ever realized how devastating his reconstructing reality after radical doubt on himself was to the faith.

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Well, one can argue nuclear weapons proved to be a force for geopolitical stability from 1945 until at least recently.

I don't think we need fear, mass causilties of innocents, and the destruction of our world to achieve geopolitical stability.

Quote: stinkingliberal

And who would aggrandize themselves to put limits on what science can explore or discover?

Good scientists and thinking people reconginze the limits on what science can explore or discover. Science is simply limited to the stuy of the observable world.

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You're badly mistaken in your premise that science leads to unfettered evil. It has, in fact, led to profound good--vast improvements in the human condition. All the theology in the world can't replace that.

You are badly mistaken if you think that my premise is as simple as science leads to unfetered evil. It is like how for multiple posts you kept saying I think that atheism leads to evil people. My premise is that science needs to guided by morality and good philosophy. Just because we can do something doesn`t mean we should. Theology is what inspires scientists to strive to improve the human condition. Religion is what has inspired our greatest scientists to research and discover things that make our lives better. Pursuing science without the guidence of philosophy and religion has shown that it leads to human misery and destruction.