In The News Today...

Quote: kenarman

The pilots are not innocent victims in this screw-up.

Maybe so, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was not their screw-up.

I sure as hell would have taken advantage of it if I was in their position.

There are such things as contracts, and there is a pilot's union as well. American can't just act in disregard to the legal obligations it voluntarily entered into just because it's convenient.

Quote: ams288

Maybe so, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was not their screw-up.

I sure as hell would have taken advantage of it if I was in their position.

So if you screw up and lose your wallet I can keep it because it wasn't my screw up?

Quote: kenarman

You think this isn't the real scenario. The pilots figured out that the software had a glitch. The word spread like wildfire among them that all Xmas holidays were getting approved by the software. They all knew that the airline would have to pay them OT and bonuses to get enough pilots. The pilots are not innocent victims in this screw-up.

100% sure that is how it happened. This is the same airline where pilots used the system to work 3-4 days a month and get paid for all 30.

This is the kind of thing that should be filed under "force majeure."

Quote: kenarman

You think this isn't the real scenario. The pilots figured out that the software had a glitch. The word spread like wildfire among them that all Xmas holidays were getting approved by the software. They all knew that the airline would have to pay them OT and bonuses to get enough pilots. The pilots are not innocent victims in this screw-up.

I really doubt the pilots knew. They only each see their tree when bidding, not the forest. It shows them lines to bid, as available, that only.pertain to their job. The less senior you are, the fewer options you have, but it's not inconceivable that even the most junior pilot of each type aircraft would see a line that included one or more holidays.

A big factor in bidding is that the FAA only allows pilots 78 hours/month flight time. Lots of pilots hit their limit before the last week of each month.

The schedulers see the forest. This one is 100% on them.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I really doubt the pilots knew. They only each see their tree when bidding, not the forest. It shows them lines to bid, as available, that only.pertain to their job. The less senior you are, the fewer options you have, but it's not inconceivable that even the most junior pilot of each type aircraft would see a line that included one or more holidays.

Have you never worked in a large place where people talk to each other? Word of this kind of thing spreads.

It isn't just work. Remember when a WMT was left a disaster after all the Food Stamp eligible folks heard that there was a glitch where their card would not be debited no matter how much they loaded their carts? The whole neighborhood was in the place. It works the same at the office. Vending machine is giving two candy bars by mistake. Word gets out. Machine gets emptied. This time it was Christmas off.

Doubt me? Pilots know they do not get off on these days. Last week, Thanksgiving, my brother mentioned he is the only pilot he knew that was home for and on the holiday. He flies private jets. His commercial buddies were scattered. The pilots would normally not even try, it would be a locked out day.

But one or two find out and brag. They talk. Word gets out.

Quote: kenarman

You think this isn't the real scenario. The pilots figured out that the software had a glitch. The word spread like wildfire among them that all Xmas holidays were getting approved by the software. They all knew that the airline would have to pay them OT and bonuses to get enough pilots. The pilots are not innocent victims in this screw-up.

Not sure how the pilots work out vacation time, but if they do it like other organizations which schedule work through holidays, some people who didn't get a preferred time off during last Christmas/ New Years can get the first option. So that means they are willing to potentially screw up their plans.

Also families who make long term plans have to cancel and rearrange. It's possible none of them have families or care about any of that. But not likely.

Quote: kenarman

So if you screw up and lose your wallet I can keep it because it wasn't my screw up?

This analogy doesn't work.

You'd be committing a crime by taking advantage of the screw-up in this scenario.

The pilots, obviously, are not committing a crime by taking advantage of AA's scheduling screw-up.

Quote: rxwine

Also families who make long term plans have to cancel and rearrange. It's possible none of them have families or care about any of that. But not likely.

It is understood pilots do not get to spend the holidays at home. You know that going in. If you are a commercial pilot and expect to get Christmas off then you are too stupid to fly a plane.

So its only the letter of the law that matters. Even if it is morally wrong you are good to as long as it is not illegally. Now you sound like one of "the rich people" that rip off the poor people just because they can.