"Cult of Mary"

Quote: Evenbob

("It is important to realize that the term "servant" or "maid" in the King James Version of the Bible refers to slaves, not employees like a butler, cook, or maid".)

Jesus says:

"The servant (slave) who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."

Oh Bob come one buddy. First of all the word slave in the Bible does not refer to the type of slave you are thinking of if you just watched "12 Years A Slave" or anything like that. Again, we have covered this ground before but we are talking more of indentured servant. However, you have a good point should even that have been condemned in the Bible, especially if a master has the right to beat his servant?

Maybe it would be helpful if you quoted the entire parable from which you took that quote. Remember what a parable is first of all, a story used to teach a lesson. By cutting out that one section from the Bible you miss the entire point. It is from Luke's Gospel 12:43-48:

"Blessed is that servant whom his master on arrival finds doing so.
Truly, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property.
But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’* and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, to eat and drink and get drunk,
then that servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful.
That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;
and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more."

So the passage you cut away from actually begins with the servant being put in charge of all the property - freeing one from servitude. Then He gives the example of a wicked servant who get drunk and beats the other servants. It is this servant not any servant who will be punished, why because he knew what he should do and didn't. The moral of this parable has nothing to do with slavery, except that Jesus came to give us everything of the master, to make us equal with the master of the house. The other part of the parable is the early version of spiderman: With great gifts comes great responsibility. What is wrong with that, why do you hate Spiderman?

So I would be happy to show you many other places in the Bible where it speaks against slavery, but you are doing a pretty good job yourself showing us those quotes I will just let you continue to do so. God Bless!

Quote: FrGamble

Oh Bob come one buddy. First of all the word slave in the Bible does not refer to the type of slave you are thinking of

Again, please point to the scripture where
Jesus speaks out against slavery. They had
all four major kinds in his day. You keep
saying he spoke out about it, yet I can't
find it. In fact, most sites say he did not
speak against it.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

Quote: FrGamble

Love your neighbor as yourself.

No, you've said several times Jesus spoke out
specifically against slavery. Where is that in the
NT?

Don't bother, I know it's not there. He didn't speak
about it because it wasn't an issue, it was a way of
life. He could not have imagined a world without it,
let alone speak against it. He was just a reformed
rabbi, after all, nothing more..

He didn't explicitly speak out against abortion either are you going to criticize the Scriptures for that too. You have to remember what Nareed and I mentioned to Face; the Scriptures were never meant to speak about all the issues the world would ever deal with. Do you really think that one book could cover all the issues the world would face for the next 2,000 years? Come on, think about it. Even John's Gospel ends by saying, "There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written."

The Bible is the written foundation upon which the moral teachings are based. Therefore, Love your neighbor as yourself is easy to apply to the issue of slavery. Jesus left us disciples who loved Jesus and preached His Word, from this the written Word of God developed through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, today the Church that put together the Bible continues to guide us in its interpretation.

Yep just a reformed rabbi that changed human history forever and whose preaching lives on through the Scriptures and the Tradition He established through His disciples. Just a regular guy whom billions of people, including myself know, love, and have a real and true relationship with through prayer. Even you have to recognize His amazing life and impact on the world.

"I no longer call you slaves but friends..."

"There is no male or female, Jew or Gentile, slave or free in Christ Jesus..."

"Perhaps this is why he was away from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a slave but a brother."

"I have come not to be served but to serve and to offer my life as a ransom for many."

etc., etc., etc., etc............

Quote: FrGamble

You have to remember what Nareed and I mentioned to Face; the Scriptures were never meant to speak about all the issues the world would ever deal with.

I did not say that.

But since you are confused, I'll say this: The nascent church set up a revision system to twist scripture to serve their purpose. They could get away with this because few people read, and even those who read had little interest in the Bible. Thus system worked well enough so that it was kept operating this long. This is why the church could sanction slavery for centuries, then turn against it. In fifty years they'll find all sorts of things in the Bible no one ever suspected could exist.

In other words, the hierarchy in the Catholic church is on different in any way to the hierarchies in other religions that have them, holy book or not. Or of any political party ever.

Remember: We're at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Quote: Nareed

The nascent church set up a revision system to twist scripture to serve their purpose. .

They all do this now, it's maddening.
They so want the Bible to say what
they want it to say, they convince
themselves it does. Including and
especially the Roman Catholic church.

To me it's not a religion at all, just a
big business. Spirituality is a personal
thing, it doesn't involve others. If you
choose to go the way of organized
religion, it means you're lazy, you aren't
really on a spiritual quest. You just want
to think you are.

Quote: Nareed

I did not say that.

But since you are confused, I'll say this: The nascent church set up a revision system to twist scripture to serve their purpose. They could get away with this because few people read, and even those who read had little interest in the Bible. Thus system worked well enough so that it was kept operating this long. This is why the church could sanction slavery for centuries, then turn against it. In fifty years they'll find all sorts of things in the Bible no one ever suspected could exist.

It is confusing isn't it how people can take the written word to make it mean different things. I'm glad you cleared it up, you are the author of the post after all so you would know best what it says. I'm wondering, could we apply that same logic to the Scriptures? You and Evenbob have your twisted conceptions of what the Bible says, that I guess is your right, but I'm confused as to why you don't trust the ones who wrote it? You all call it revisionist because it doesn't say what you want it to say, I'm sorry but that doesn't make you right. Why don't we trust the authors and the ones that have diligently studied the Scriptures and prayerfully poured over them instead of you making up some revisionist theory about what it really says. To just pass on your word as Gospel without due diligence and respect for the text and its history of scholarship is, to use Evenbob's language, lazy.

Quote: Evenbob

They all do this now, it's maddening.
They so want the Bible to say what
they want it to say, they convince
themselves it does.

The Catholic Church has nothing on you Bob. It is maddening how you want the Bible to say what you want it to say and then when you are proved wrong about this or any number of things you just move on to some offensive diatribe.

Quote: FrGamble

It is maddening how you want the Bible to say what you want it to say and then when you are proved wrong .

No no no, you never proved me wrong on
one thing. You just gave the answer from
the Approved Book on Rewriting the History
of the Catholic Church and proclaimed me
wrong. The book is a constant work in progress,
they have a spin unit in the Vatican that never
sleeps. Fools a lot of people, but I'm not one
of them.