Is Satan Real

Quote: FrGamble

I know for a fact the more we move away from God the worse society will become.

Have you considered the fact that for the past 500 years the God Huitzilopochtli has been starved of human blood? Perhaps he has had to resort to making us kill each other in great numbers to obtain his fill. Therefore we need to return to the ancient and pious Aztec custom of sacrificing people on His altar to return the God to its proper balance. Would you offer your life? I hear the obsidian knife is sharp enough to cause little pain and exsanguination is swift.

That makes about as much sense as what you've said.

Happiness is a modern condition?!? Your proof for this is nobody smiling in some old photos?!? Do you really think none of these people were happy? Do you think that taking life seriously or working hard means that you cannot be happy?

What you and Nareed have been saying recently just doesn't make much sense.

Quote: FrGamble

Happiness is a modern condition?!? Your proof for this is nobody smiling in some old photos?!? Do you really think none of these people were happy? .

My point was, happiness was not taken seriously
even 125 years ago. To the point that smiling in
a photo meant you were not a serious person.
You seem to think people were giddy with happiness,
living on a farm (which most did), getting up at sunrise
and working the entire day just to survive. Not to
get rich, or to even get ahead. Just to survive.

We can't even comprehend how it must have been.
Happiness didn't enter the equation, there wasn't
much and people certainly didn't worry about it.

There is so much confusion going on right now. Maybe we have to define happiness. Being happy doesn't mean you are giddy or smiling like a fool. Happiness is a peace in your soul and it often comes precisely from doing hard work, being outside, being part of a family, and of course recognizing that your life has purpose and meaning. To toil in those conditions as an atheist I imagine it would be impossible to be happy. However, the vast majority were believers in God so they could find happiness, contentment, and peace just working hard to survive and provide for those they love. They didn't need material things or the vapid and giddy entertainment you seem to equate with happiness.

Quote: FrGamble

To toil in those conditions as an atheist I imagine it would be impossible to be happy.

LOL!

Quote: FrGamble

However, the vast majority were believers in God so they could find happiness, contentment, and peace

No they weren't. They were Christians because
they were raised in the religion. In the Middle
Ages if you didn't go to church on a regular
basis, you were dealt with. Even in the later
version, the Protestants, if you didn't go to
church you were ostracized. Belief and happiness
and contentment had nothing to do with anything.

Even well into the 20th century, if you lived in a
small town in the US and didn't attend one of the local
churches, you were viewed as a suspicious person.
If you were a merchant, it was the kiss of fiscal
death not to go.

It doesn't even enter into your mind that people actually wanted to go to Church does it? That people actually found value in their religion is incomprehensible to you isn't it? So sad.

Quote: FrGamble

It doesn't even enter into your mind that people actually wanted to go to Church does it?

Some did, but they really had no choice. You
went or you paid the consequences. Just a
hint that you were a heretic and it was all
over for you. As I said, residual effects of this
existed well into the 20th century.

"Heresy is any provocative belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs."

The Church took heresy very seriously.

Quote: FrGamble

Maybe we have to define happiness.

Religion is not up to that task.

Quote:

Happiness is a peace in your soul and it often comes precisely from doing hard work, being outside, being part of a family, and of course recognizing that your life has purpose and meaning. To toil in those conditions as an atheist I imagine it would be impossible to be happy.

It would be impossible for anyone to be happy under such conditions, because not one word of your definition has anything at all to do with happiness.

Happiness is the spiritual/mental state one reaches when one achieves their values or is working towards doing so. This is particularly true for long term values such as a career or a family. And this is the reason religion is not competent to pronounce on the subject: it would have you sacrifice your values for lesser values at the least, thus rendering happiness impossible.

Quote:

However, the vast majority were believers in God so they could find happiness, contentment, and peace just working hard to survive and provide for those they love. They didn't need material things or the vapid and giddy entertainment you seem to equate with happiness.

How do you provide for those you love without material things like food, shelter, clothing, medicine and learning?

Quote: Nareed

Happiness is the spiritual/mental state one reaches when one achieves their values or is working towards doing so. This is particularly true for long term values such as a career or a family.

I do like your definition better.

I don't see how religion can't help with happiness, especially with its emphasis on family. Not just immediate or extended family relations, but also in seeing our friends and other important people in our lives as brothers and sisters sharing a Heavenly Father.

Quote: FrGamble

I do like your definition better.

That was Ayn Rand's definition, taken from her own writings. I find the Lexicon an invaluable reference tool for quick inquiries into essentials. Few other philosophers were as precise with definitions.

Quote:

I don't see how religion can't help with happiness, especially with its emphasis on family.

It was in the post you're responding to: it would make one sacrifice one's values for lesser values or non-values.

You will fid yourself giving money away to the church, to charity, to the government, rather than to spend it selfishly on further course for your career or on "vile" material things for your family, such as vacations, tablets, cars, toys, etc.