Catholic sacrament of the week.

FrG left me, Paco, and Face in charge of defending the faith while he was gone. In my case, that might be like leaving the wolf to guard the hen house. Nevertheless, I will try to rise to the occasion and hopefully learn a thing or two myself.

Briefly, there are seven sacraments in the Catholic church. These are ways that Jesus ministered to his followers and Catholics believe these are essential ways to connect the church to god.

The first three sacraments are called the Sacraments of Initiation and baptism is the first of those. I think we all know what baptism means generally. Here are some key facts on Catholic baptism that maybe you didn't know.

• Baptism is to be done only once.
• Contrary to hard-line Protestant belief, Catholics do not believe that baptism by water is essential to salvation. A loophole one can use is baptism by desire, for example in the case where baptism was desired but was not able to be carried through. For example, a car accident on the way to the baptism.
• Godparents play an essential role in the baptism ceremony itself.
• The baby being baptized will be sprinkled once with oil on the chest to signify salvation and three times with water on the head to signify the trinity.
• It is not essential that a priest perform the baptism. Anybody already baptized may do. He should be dressed in white.
• If an adult protestant converts to Catholicism, and was already baptized, that baptism is accepted by the Catholic church. They emphasize that baptism is done only once per lifetime.
• The baptism is done in the "name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," as is usually the case in Protestant churches as well. This is as opposed to "In the name of Jesus," which some Protestant denominations do, which they would say is commanded in Acts 2:38.

Again, this wasn't meant to cover the topic from A to Z but just highlight some points I found interesting.

A question I've always wondered is why isn't baptism mentioned in the Old Testament, other than a few cases of "washing." It would seem when Jesus was born the practice was suddenly very popular, but when, where, and why did it suddenly become in vogue?

Another question is may women perform baptisms in the Catholic church?

Links:
The Catholic Liturgy on baptism
The Sacrament of Baptism

I'd like to request that we not get into the usual tangents of whether or not all religion is a myth but try to stay focused on the sacraments for purpose of this thread. Thank you.

Quote: Wizard

In my case, that might be like leaving the wolf to guard the hen house.

I think that would have been in my case.

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Baptism is to be done only once.

I've dodged that one all my life :)

I wonder, how many babies who get baptized chose to be baptized? I think the number is very close to zero.

Quote: Nareed

I wonder, how many babies who get baptized chose to be baptized? I think the number is very close to zero.

Infant baptism is a sharp area where Catholics and most Protestants differ. Protestants feel one must choose to be baptized. However, that leaves them with the sensitive issue of what happens to a baby's soul if he/she dies before the age of consent.

I think Catholics would say that infant baptism is a way of welcoming the baby into the church. The next two sacraments, which I'll get to in the following weeks, follow up on baptism, and do require consent.

Quote: Wizard

However, that leaves them with the sensitive issue of what happens to a baby's soul if he/she dies before the age of consent.

I think the same thing that happens to the baby's invisible dinosaur pet.

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I think Catholics would say that infant baptism is a way of welcoming the baby into the church.

Or claiming ownership of her soul?

Apostasy exists in all religions.

Quote: Wizard

FrG left me, Paco, and Face in charge of defending the faith while he was gone. In my case, that might be like leaving the wolf to guard the hen house. Nevertheless, I will try to rise to the occasion and hopefully learn a thing or two myself.


Another question is may women perform baptisms in the Catholic church?

I didn't know he was gone. As to the question of women, thinking way back IIRC we were taught a priest is supposed to do it but in an "emergency" anyone can do it. I do not remember everything but I would have remembered if the Nuns would have said it was "males only." This begs the question that can any water and oil be used as during an emergency chances are Holy Water and Holy Oil are probably not going to be at hand and if they are chances are there will be a Priest nearby with them.

For those who remember, though it was Protestant, Archie Bunker baptized his grandson when the parents and the minister refused to do it.

I have been to a few the last few years owing to nieces and nephews coming along and stood as Godfather at one. The atmosphere is the least "formal" of the seven. The Priest kind of walks among the group, the kids are encouraged to gather round, and just a general "welcome" atmosphere. OTOH the one where I was Godfather the Priest did a poor job of the logistical end.

The Padre can correct me if I am wrong, but to say "In the Name of Jesus" would be at odds with the idea of the Holy Trinity.

Quote: AZDuffman

I didn't know he was gone. As to the question of women, thinking way back IIRC we were taught a priest is supposed to do it but in an "emergency" anyone can do it. I do not remember everything but I would have remembered if the Nuns would have said it was "males only." This begs the question that can any water and oil be used as during an emergency chances are Holy Water and Holy Oil are probably not going to be at hand and if they are chances are there will be a Priest nearby with them.

In the summer I attended the Catholic baptism of a third cousin once removed. The one performing the ceremony introduced himself as a deacon. As you mentioned, it was much more informal and friendly than I was expecting. He did go through the liturgy I linked to above but also said in his own words the basics of it and made sure to explain that non-Catholics were welcome in the ceremony.

I don't think Catholics would worry about such things as using regular water in an "emergency baptism." They would probably claim that "baptism by desire" would cover the baby if anything happened.

Protestants, I think, have the harder time defending their position on baptism. The hard-liners believe it is essential to salvation, must be consensual, and some believe it must be done by immersion and/or "in the name of Jesus." The more liberal Protestants deny it is essential to salvation and view it more as a ceremonial thing where any method may do.

Quote: Wizard

Protestants, I think, have the harder time defending their position on baptism. The hard-liners believe it is essential to salvation, must be consensual, and some believe it must be done by immersion and/or "in the name of Jesus." The more liberal Protestants deny it is essential to salvation and view it more as a ceremonial thing where any method may do.

I was once doing pest control on a Protestant church. Above the altar there was what for a moment looked like a small hot-tub. For a moment I was wondering who would do that, then it clicked that it was for adult, full-dunk baptisms and say whatever you want but a hot-tub is made to hold water so it is either use the same material or go down to the river so to speak.

A woman I worked with decided to convert from Catholic to Baptist as she didn't like going to church alone and the other manager I had was Baptist so he kind of softly recruited her. The minister gave her a kind of express-conversion, said if she was already baptized a Christian she was welcome, just give her contact info and show up. No classes or anything. We had a bit of fun with our various faiths (think military inter-service rivalries) and he was before odd-man out. Now I was. So I asked her, "Did you get dunked? Did you sign anything? NO? Good, let me call my lawyer............"

There was a scene on Sex and the City where Charlotte converted to Judaism and was baptized, for lack of another term. I'm not sure they used that word but she had to walk through a small swimming pool. She was told when she got out on the other side she would be a Jew.

I'm not sure what my question is. How about how accurate was this scene? What is the process called? I welcome all other commentary about it.

Quote: Wizard

They would probably claim that "baptism by desire" would cover the baby if anything happened.

Didn't we agree no baby ever desired a baptism?

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Protestants, I think, have the harder time defending their position on baptism. The hard-liners believe it is essential to salvation, must be consensual, and some believe it must be done by immersion and/or "in the name of Jesus." The more liberal Protestants deny it is essential to salvation and view it more as a ceremonial thing where any method may do.

I see little difference. Both tend to want to put you between a rock and a hard place constantly. Both burden people with sins and guilt that are not their doing (like "original" sin). The Catholic church sometimes tends to find a loophole.

I understand "soul" as a poetic term for "that which defines a person in mind and personality." The essence of a person(*), as it were. As such, it would be something real. But it's as mortal as any living being, precisely because it's part of a living being. When you die it dies with you. there's no need to fret about it being in "peril" because of some ritual you may or may not have undergone before you were too young to even know you were you.

(*) Or a pet, and some other types of animals.

Quote: Wizard

There was a scene on Sex and the City where Charlotte converted to Judaism and was baptized, for lack of another term. I'm not sure they used that word but she had to walk through a small swimming pool. She was told when she got out on the other side she would be a Jew.

I'm not sure what my question is. How about how accurate was this scene? What is the process called? I welcome all other commentary about it.

I think a lot of that scene was just to get to show her nude.