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Yet another aviation thread.
| September 18th, 2017 at 10:50:10 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | AFAIK those kind of "milk run" flights are illegal. I believe you can fly from your home country to one foreign destination, and forward to only one more destination. When Singapore Airlines stopped their nonstop from SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR they replaced them with A380 two stage routes SIN-NRT-LAX and SIN-FRA-JFK . They can sell tickets for any leg. Those are called 5th Freedom flights. Singapore Airlines with the second largest A380 fleet (19 aircraft) has the second largest list of A380 destinations. From & To Singapore Auckland Beijing Delhi Frankfurt Hong Kong London Los Angeles Melbourne Mumbai New York Paris Shanghai Sydney Tokyo Zurich
I would say they are good at hub-destination routes. United has flights now from their hub in San Francisco and Chengdu where Chengdu is more of a destination and not a transfer point. Beijing–Capital, Chengdu, Hangzhou , Hong Kong, Honolulu, London–Heathrow, Osaka–Kansai, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Seoul–Incheon, Shanghai–Pudong, Singapore, Sydney, Taipei–Taoyuan, Tel Aviv–Ben Gurion, Tokyo–Haneda, Tokyo–Narita Seasonal: Auckland, Munich, Xi'an, Zürich (begins June 7, 2018) Looking at the 13 airlines with the A380 I believe only Qantas flies them out of two airports in their home country. Qantas flies an A380 from both Sydney and Melbourne to LAX. Del / Ord Undeliver : Airline Country 96 / 142 46 : EMIRATES UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 19 / 24 5 : SINGAPORE AIRLINES SINGAPORE 14 / 14 0 : LUFTHANSA GERMANY 12 / 20 8 : QANTAS AIRWAYS AUSTRALIA 12 / 12 0 : BRITISH AIRWAYS UNITED KINGDOM 10 / 10 0 : ETIHAD AIRWAYS UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 10 / 10 0 : KOREAN AIR KOREA, REPUBLIC OF 10 / 10 0 : AIR FRANCE FRANCE 8 / 10 2 : QATAR AIRWAYS QATAR 6 / 6 0 : MALAYSIA AIRLINES MALAYSIA 6 / 6 0 : THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL THAILAND 6 / 6 0 : ASIANA AIRLINES KOREA, REPUBLIC OF 5 / 5 0 : CHINA SOUTHERN AIRLINES COMPANY CHINA As for USA airlines, American has not flown a 4 engine jet in three decades. United has to many hubs in USA to want a large plane. For instance, I think they fly to Tokyo from 9 destinations. Airbus knew that the only potential customer was Delta, but Delta's finances have been so bad that most of their widebody fleet is ancient. By the time they recovered that A350 was an attractive alternative to the A380. The combined widebody fleet of American-United-Delta (age in years) AGE - WIDEBODY - NUMBER 23.0 Boeing 747 20 20.2 Boeing 767 164 14.2 Boeing 777 171 2.0 Boeing 787 61 9.7 Airbus A330 66 0.2 Airbus A350 1 The widebody fleet of Emirates (age in years) 6.2 Boeing 777 161 4.0 Airbus A380 95 Emirates has almost as many 777s as combined triple fleet in USA, and they are less than half as old. |
| September 18th, 2017 at 1:04:26 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I was afraid of that.
I suppose Lufthansa could fly them off somewhere other than Frankfurt, but they don't seem to do much of that in any case (blame it on the cold war). I won't comment on the others, except that emirates and Singapore pretty much operate from city-states. I suppose sometime soon a 4-engine passenger jet will look as odd as a Ford tri-motor. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| September 18th, 2017 at 5:00:33 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Lufthansa has a large secondary hub at Munich, and they fly from Munich 9 USA destinations: Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, New York–JFK, Newark, San Francisco, Washington–Dulles But they only fly their A380 from & to Frankfurt to five destinations in the USA: Houston, Los Angeles, Miami, New York-JFK, San Francisco Lufthansa also flies A380s to seven Asian destinations Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, Bangkok, Beijing, Delhi, and Hong Kong
Consider the Sydney to Los Angeles route. It is probably the most competitive route in the world that is that distance. Five airlines: American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Qantas, United Airlines, and Virgin Australia. With five airlines Qantas is probably not going to be able to fly more than once a day, so to give it a competitive advantage it flies an A380. Qantas uses the A380 to compete on the Melbourne to Los Angeles airport with United Airlines (Dreamliner) and Virgin Australia (Boeing 777-300ER). AFAIK Qantas is the only airline to fly the A380 from more than one airport in it's home country. Qantas also flies the A380 from Sydney to DFW. It gets a competitive advantage because of the range of an A380. DFW is more convenient of a transfer point for people going to East coast. Qantas uses it's remaining 6 A380s to fly from Sydney and Melbourne to London (via Dubai). The bottom line is the A380 was Introduced Ten Years Before Its Time. Jennifer Aniston got so much crap for her A380 nightmare commercial that they made her the hero in the next commercial |
| September 19th, 2017 at 7:32:13 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Maybe. But maybe it still remains to be seen. Maybe it caught the wrong trend. Maybe in four years airlines will be demanding a VLA no longer in production. I wonder what's the biggest airplane that can be made. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| September 19th, 2017 at 9:24:59 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | BTW, Air Canada will begin flying narrow bodies between Toronto and Montreal to Ireland and Scotland. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| September 19th, 2017 at 10:38:31 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
So far Aibus has 6 A321neo to leasing companies. But once this plane gets more widespread, you should see more Transatlantic services. The standard version has a range of 3,500 nmi while the Long Range version is 4,000 nmi. Shannon Ireland to Seattle is 3912 nm and DFW is 3811 nm away. Widebody Service from Shannon Aer Lingus Boston Seasonal: New York–JFK American Airlines Seasonal: Philadelphia Delta Air Lines Seasonal: New York–JFK United Airlines Seasonal: Chicago–O'Hare, Newark Narrowbody Service from Shannon Norwegian Air Shuttle Newburgh, Providence Air Canada Seasonal: Toronto–Pearson (begins 2 June 2018) I should think at the very least there will be narrowbody service to Miami or Charlotte NC On 31 July 2017, flydubai took delivery of its first Boeing 737 MAX 8, making it the first carrier in the Middle East to operate the type. That will bring more smaller European airports within range of Dubai for transfers to Asia. You might be able to take a 737-8MAX from Ireland to Singapore via Dubai. That's a scary thought. |
| September 19th, 2017 at 10:59:08 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | With a good alliance, you may be able to purchase round the world tickets on a narrow body flights. The hypothetical route has only Tokyo-Honolulu at 3350 nm for longest leg. The total route is 18,000 nm for all 7 segments. Maybe even more exotic round the world trips might be possible. |
| September 19th, 2017 at 12:02:23 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
IMO a true round the world trip ought to be as long as a full equatorial circumference of the Earth. That's over 40,000 kilometers. I mean, you could stand at the South Pole (or the North Pole), and technically circle the world in a dozen steps. But, yeah, it's scary to be able to do this on narrow body aircraft. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| September 19th, 2017 at 12:16:15 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
If you are trying to set a record that is true. It looks like Boeing used the Tropic of Cancer for their round the world record.
But for ticket prices it is not necessary. They put a minimum travel time of 10 days so that most businessmen can't use these fares when travelling to singapore or Hong Kong (for instance).
I think this SkyTeam flight involving only AeroMexico and AirFrance would qualify for the cheapest RTW fare (20,114 miles}. |
| September 19th, 2017 at 3:03:18 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
It's a matter of technicalities, really. Few "round the world" trips actually travel as far as one equatorial circumference (Voyager surely didn't). Suppose you drove across the southernmost part of Florid and claimed to have traversed the width of the US. that would be technically true. Oh, well.. I am more concerned with the ever longer trips on narrow bodies. I've said before they don't have much room to move about. So even in a decent airline with good legroom, like Jet Blue or Interjet, it must be exhausting to spend 5-7 hours on your seat. I recall taking a walk on DC-10s and 747s. the twin aisles, scattered lavatories and large exit doors provide for room to move and to hang around, away from the seats. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |