Simple question?

Your argument seems to be that because not everyone in the religion agrees completely with everything then it is all wrong. That makes your argument null and void and illogical. You also continue to think that billions of people believe something without any evidence or experience that supports what they believe. I find that a naive and slanted view of people. You might be projecting your belief that there is no God, which is based on nothing, unto those of us that do not have blind faith and live on empty promises like you do. Talk about having no value to present.

Quote: FrGamble

And don't find what they don't want to look for.

Me personally, believed strongly for decades, but as we have mentioned before, my personal faith just drifted away. One day, several times, I wondered why I quit praying?

So that's my story, probably over 50 years worth of seeing miracles in grass growing, and water making it's giant circle, etc.

Can you say you have honestly tried to look at the whole faith program, and consider it is a ruse? Probably not. But I think there was a least a few times when you were in fear of losing your staunch belief ?

Have you not experienced fear that you might lose faith? If I were in your position, I think that would scare me occasionally. What happens, if you quit believing?

Quote: petroglyph

Me personally, believed strongly for decades, but as we have mentioned before, my personal faith just drifted away. One day, several times, I wondered why I quit praying?

So that's my story, probably over 50 years worth of seeing miracles in grass growing, and water making it's giant circle, etc.

Can you say you have honestly tried to look at the whole faith program, and consider it is a ruse? Probably not. But I think there was a least a few times when you were in fear of losing your staunch belief ?

Have you not experienced fear that you might lose faith? If I were in your position, I think that would scare me occasionally. What happens, if you quit believing?

Throughout my life I have never worried about losing my faith in God, in a generic sense. That would be like fearing that gravity wouldn't be here tomorrow or the sun won't come up. However, that doesn't equate to my Christian faith which I have drifted away from in my life. Maybe getting close to agnosticism or at least a Deist idea, once seriously considering becoming Muslim, and then returning to the truth of Catholic Christianity.

Recently of course these scandals and such do get you questioning the human structure of the Church, but not its divine soul. I've found myself sometimes wondering is there a way to stay Catholic without the Church? The answer in case you are wondering is no.

Quote: FrGamble

Your argument seems to be that because not everyone in the religion agrees completely .

You don't find that odd? Nobody disagrees
on how a plane flies, or how electric is
generated, or how osmosis works in plants.
Yet something as basic as religion, something
that should be crystal clear because it's so
important in peoples lives, that subject is
not clear at all. Not only do the major religions
severely disagree, the religions themselves
disagree within their own ranks.

To an outsider this screams, STAY AWAY! None
of these people have a clue, and they want to suck
you into their mess? I don't think so. And on
top of that, I'm the weirdo because I refuse to
play their waste of time games.

Quote: FrGamble

I've found myself sometimes wondering is there a way to stay Catholic without the Church? The answer in case you are wondering is no.

Of course there is, break away and do
your own interpreting of what the
Bible says. Roman Catholicism is just
one version. But you'd lose all your
benefits from being a priest. Just
stay there and do your own thing
and collect the benefits. You wouldn't
be the first..

Quote: Evenbob

You don't find that odd? Nobody disagrees
on how a plane flies, or how electric is
generated, or how osmosis works in plants.
Yet something as basic as religion, something
that should be crystal clear because it's so
important in peoples lives, that subject is
not clear at all. Not only do the major religions
severely disagree, the religions themselves
disagree within their own ranks.

To an outsider this screams, STAY AWAY! None
of these people have a clue, and they want to suck
you into their mess? I don't think so. And on
top of that, I'm the weirdo because I refuse to
play their waste of time games.

Well, you have nailed it again. I've had those same thoughts about stay away. And your right, to a non believer there is little difference between the religions.

I think people just have such a need for acceptance, that they are willing to go against what they actually believe and claim something else, just to fit in?

There is sanctuary in numbers.

Quote: Evenbob

Of course there is, break away and do
your own interpreting of what the
Bible says. Roman Catholicism is just
one version. But you'd lose all your
benefits from being a priest. Just
stay there and do your own thing
and collect the benefits. You wouldn't
be the first..

I tried to encourage Frg. in the past to do just that. It makes sense. As each televangelist drops out of view, it creates a vacuum. And something, will fill that void.

Without having to change one deep seated belief, other than obeying the corporation, Frg's knowledge and passion might actually help many many people, who think similarly and are just sick of reading scandal after scandal.

I think the prophet would have approved.

Quote: petroglyph

I think people just have such a need for acceptance.

It's the herd instinct. It's safer with the
herd, you don't have to think for
yourself, all your questions have been
answered, just sit back and relax. You're
future is set. Or not..

Quote: Evenbob

It's the herd instinct. It's safer with the
herd, you don't have to think for
yourself, all your questions have been
answered, just sit back and relax. You're
future is set. Or not..

It does seem like the easier way of dealing with other folks, when you can profess that you are one of God's people?

Anytime someone I care about or others, goes to the god answer, there is little value in a long debate about it. I see them in a place in their head, that allows them an escape venue for not being personally responsible.

And unfortunately for me, it's easier to not argue with them endlessly about it. I've had loved ones tell me, God talks to them. I challenge the sanity, but what benefit is there to go all the way down that road? And even if I win, what have I won?

It's usually a safer place to park minds at this stage, then go for critical thinking skills.

"Charles Mackay quotes
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

Quote: petroglyph

God talks to them. I challenge the sanity, but what benefit is there to go all the way down that road?

It's kind of like a mental illness,
you don't argue with those kinds
of people. You wouldn't go to a
mental institution and argue with
the inmates, it's futile. Treat god
people the same way when you
meet them in person. You never
know how far their derangement
goes.