Pilot Fatigue Rules

A couple weeks ago I went to Seattle. I was supposed to fly back around 8:00 PM on a Sunday on Southwest Airlines. They were nice enough to send me a text around 3:00 PM that the flight would be delayed four hours. So, I killed the time taking the ferry to Bremerton and back. Better than sitting around the airport.

When I get there it was delayed about another hour. Then, we finally get on the plane. There was clearly a disagreement between two flight attendants on the number of passengers so they had to count again. There was also some discussion about the weight of the luggage. I was in the front row, so could hear the staff talking pretty clearly. When everything seemed to be cleared up somebody said "I think we're finally ready to leave." Then the pilot said (the cockpit door was open), "Damn it! Now I'm five minutes past my on-duty limit." I don't think he said "on duty limit" but used some industry expression.

Let me back up and say that from another passenger I learned that a lot of passengers tried to get on other connecting flights to Vegas. Some were successful but most were not. However, they evidently got all the luggage of these grumpy passengers to Vegas on other flights. So, the actual flight was mostly full but had relatively little luggage. This evidently posed some kind of weight distribution issue, which is important for take off.

To resume, the pilot went on the PA system and explained that because of there was some confusion about how the luggage was stored they had to take some extra time before take off, and those extra minutes caused the pilot to go over his maximum flying time by five minutes. Evidently, the maximum flying time on domestic flights is 8 or 9 hours. This was in response to pilot fatigue being an issue plane crash in Buffalo in 2009.

So, we had to sit in the plane about another hour while they waited to grab the pilot from some incoming flight to Seattle. It probably would have been a very grumpy cabin if it weren't for the fact it was not about 12:30 AM and most passengers were too sleepy to complain.

Anyway, my point is that I dislike hard and fast rules like this. I won't dispute that there should be some rules in place to deter sleepy pilots. But a hard and fast cut-off seems to have unintended consequences.

To just throw out an idea, for two hours after a cut-off time, the airline can choose to respect it, or pay $x per minute the pilot goes over the deadline, giving the pilot the option to not fly out of concerns for safety. Perhaps this penalty window can last up to two hours.

In closing, the pilot seemed perfectly lucid to me and did not hold back about his feelings against the Pilot Fatigue Laws and suggested writing to congress if the passengers wanted to complain.

Reference: New pilot fatigue rules go into effect this weekend.

The question for the poll is what do you think about Pilot Fatigue rules?

My son flies for AA and he loves them. He
says any rules to keep pilots more in line
is welcome. He won't go into details but
I gather he's seen pilots who have no
business being in the sky that day. They
depend heavily on the equipment and
get complacent about their fitness to fly.

There's a reason new rules are put into
place, it's not just a whim from some
focus group. There's always a real issue
behind their creation.

The hard line is best. Lives are on the line, so strict rules are understandable. Would you feel different if the pilot came on the PA and said, "I'm 1:59 minutes over the maximum shift time, but don't worry, we're going to pay a fine, and I feel fine..."

Are you any less dead if the crash is due to pilot fatigue?

Quote: Ayecarumba

The hard line is best. Lives are on the line, so strict rules are understandable. Would you feel different if the pilot came on the PA and said, "I'm 1:59 minutes over the maximum shift time, but don't worry, we're going to pay a fine, and I feel fine..."

First, I never said a little fine. It should be a tough one. Like $5 per passenger per minute. So, on a 100-passenger flight, $500 a minute, which is not inconsequential. At two hours and 100 passenger, the penalty would be $60,000, so the airline would probably cancel the flight anyway.

The alternative is a hard line in the sand. Why is a pilot able to fly nine hours, but not nine hours and one minute?

Quote: Nareed

Are you any less dead if the crash is due to pilot fatigue?

Maybe there is no crash at all if the pilot isn't fatigued.

Quote: Wizard

The alternative is a hard line in the sand. Why is a pilot able to fly nine hours, but not nine hours and one minute?

Truck drivers have time limits also. 1 min over
and you get fined. Rules only work if they're
enforced. Our borders are being over run
because the officers are not allowed to
enforce the rules.

Fatigue was never a problem before drug testing. j/k

If airlines had to refund passenger fares for not leaving on time or they had to pay for the TSA groping pre board, the flights would miraculously be more timely.

The free market doesn't work, because we haven't tried it.

Quote: petroglyph

If airlines had to refund passenger fares for not leaving on time or they had to pay for the TSA groping pre board, the flights would miraculously be more timely.

Since the infamous three-hour tarmac rule, delays have gone down but cancellations have gone up. If you fined airlines for not leaving on time, there's be no airline industry left within a year.

Quote: Wizard

Maybe there is no crash at all if the pilot isn't fatigued.

The pilot won't be fatigued if she sticks to the rules.