Eygpt Air Flight 804

Quote: Fleastiff

BEA confirms the cabin smoke alarms and that it is from ACARS data. Acars data is held in suspense for one minute, during which the system checks for related messages or higher priority messages. After the minute's suspense the data is sent to the cockpit screen and then sent to the airliner's maintenance facility via VHF or Satellite depending on service contracts and connection availability. So three minutes prior to aberrant action by pilots means atleast four minutes of actual detection and multiple sensors being activated means an escalating situation.

CNN has a screen shot of the ACARS data regarding the smoke alarms

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/20/middleeast/egyptair-flight-804-main/index.html

Quote: terapined

CNN has a screen shot of the ACARS data regarding the smoke alarms.

Thank you. CNN placed their logo over critical data but it seems that there were about twenty minutes of operating data during which alarms related to Avionics Bay Smoke, Bathroom Smoke, Sliding Window alarm, Fixed Window alarm. This shows, I would think, a point of origin and a very serious as well as escalating situation. A bomb in or near the avionics bay is a possibility as is a bomb in the restroom area (probably easier to plant). A smoking passenger is possible but less likely as it seems to have been too intense and to have involved the avionics bay too soon.

As I understand the design, control systems would be nearby. I have no idea if power interruptions would involve control input signals but I assume maneuvering was smoke related.

We all know that most black box and ACARS data are used retrospectively although many European airlines regularly "milk" the datastream and analyze it for both technical problems and pilot performance problems. Legally, the FAA can not use black box data for pilot discipline. Many pilot associations fear that routine computerized analysis of performance data could lead to firing of pilots.

The systems require some minor additional equipment to be installed and the data is 'milked' by a wide band 'wireless' receiver in the terminal that downloads the data from planes within a half mile from the terminal. The full data stream of the FDR is rarely transmitted, but major data would be routinely analyzed.

What are the odds that this wasn't a terrorist attack and really was just an equipment malfunction or something?

I'm just curious to hear what people think... News coverage of this seems to have evaporated pretty quickly.

Quote: ams288

What are the odds that this wasn't a terrorist attack and really was just an equipment malfunction or something?

I'm just curious to hear what people think... News coverage of this seems to have evaporated pretty quickly.

What's interesting is that this plane was actually tagged with graffiti
Years ago somebody spray painted the bottom of the plane "We will bring this plane down"

https://dailyfeeders.com/2016/05/22/we-will-bring-this-plane-down-graffiti-sprayed-on-to-the-egyptair-jet-that-killed-66/

Quote: ams288

What are the odds that this wasn't a terrorist attack and really was just an equipment malfunction or something?

The experts won't say until they have data, the first Interim Report is due in about a month, but its clear that anyone talking about terrorism now has a politically driven agenda, not a factually driven motivation.

It was a very hot, intense and smokey fire, that took out the avionics bay and the ACARS system quickly and probably the main bus to all the instruments.

Terrorism is possible but vastly more likely a stuck flushing motor and a failure of the safety elements in that circuit.

Likely that any recovered corpses will be in fragments but if intact lungs or throats are found, thick black smoke.

Pilot should have gone into ALTLAW and descended even to overspeed and vented the cabin.

Quote: ams288

What are the odds that this wasn't a terrorist attack and really was just an equipment malfunction or something?

It's really hard to tell until the investigators get their hands on the wreckage and the black boxes.

FWIW, I've heard from two pilots, one private and one commercial, that a 90-degree turn and rapid descent are consistent with loss of cabin pressure.

Loss of cabin pressure can occur for various reasons. One being a bomb, to be sure, but also a malfunction or a miss-setting of the cabin pressurization controls (it has happened before).

Peppering of human remains suggests to one anonymous Egyptian forensic worker that there was a bomb but it is ambiguous in human skin and more reliable in metal.

If pieces of the plane are found with the airframe bent outwards and containing "peppering" from dust, debris, wrapping material, etc. it is suggestive of an onboard explosion. If pieces are found bent inwards its considered impact damage and if there is large area scorching rather than peppering, it is suggestive of an onboard fire, which might have any origin.

I would not consider one anonymous forensic worker to be a reliable source.

Quote: Nareed

FWIW, I've heard from two pilots, one private and one commercial, that a 90-degree turn and rapid descent are consistent with loss of cabin pressure.

I've read the same thing. It is part of normal training in many countries. It was an indicator that the pilots were still in control at that point. On the other hand most scenarios that bring down a plane so rapidly that no signal is sent involve loss of cabin pressure.

Quote: Pacomartin

I've read the same thing. It is part of normal training in many countries. It was an indicator that the pilots were still in control at that point. On the other hand most scenarios that bring down a plane so rapidly that no signal is sent involve loss of cabin pressure.

And now the dueling press conferences are breaking out.

Reports of the plane's maneuvers came from the Greek Air Force. The Egyptian government is saying there were no maneuvers.

<sigh>