Democratic Nominee in 2020

Quote: kenarman

My father was a vice-principle in 1958 and earned $300/month. In todays dollars that is $2,670 this is about $16/hr the average person would be well below that in 1958 so most people did not make a living wage. Bottom line in this as with most things in life is that most people can't be made happy by giving them more, they will only want even more. This is true of money, power, and almost anything else. That is why people and society need to draw a line and say no more.

(Quote clipped, relevance)

I agree, but then they must (and have) drawn a line and say, "No less." Your extremely well-written post misses (as does so many) the question completely, WHAT should the minimum be. Should the minimum keep one alive, or keep one alive comfortably? Should the minimum keep a person comfortably alive and provide the same opportunity for growth (computer, internet) as others would have home access to?

Is the minimum wage about a standard of pay or a standard of living?

If about a standard of living and the value of the money decreases (relative to costs to maintain living) then should or should not something exist to keep the amount of money earned as much in line as possible with the intended standard of living?

That said, if they do get more, I 100% agree still more would be wanted after that and I line would need to be drawn to say, "No more." I think we start from the bottom and work our way up, though, because you can't have less than zero unless people are paying to work...which I think strippers and taxi drivers sometimes end up doing.

Quote: rxwine

Why not third world wages then? Just enough, to not starve?

You're obviously making a decision to not impoverish the janitor to slave wages already. But you want to make sure he doesn't have it too good obviously.

There needs to be shit jobs in the economy, precisely so people are incentivised to not make a career out of them. "A job provides a lot more than just a paycheck" petro

I had to speak up because apparently I'm the only one here that worked as a janitor. It was a pretty good gig while I did it, imo. But it was only about 3 days per week, I think it paid a little more than mw, which at the time was 3.20 per hour. I thought that was federal, but maybe not after reading how hard SooPoo had it?
But because I didn't make enough money [while going to high school] at my janitors job [at the C college across the road] I also got a job cooking for Col. Sanders.

That job was pretty brutal. At the time KFC had cut a deal with the feds to let beginning chicken cooks work for 1/2 of minimum wage until they were proficient at cooking chicken using deep fryers, [which are pressure bombs] and 400 * oil. That job was hard hard, and I only stayed a few of the winter months, due to low wages and short hours. This was while I was in high school, having two jobs at the same time. But that was after working construction in the summers after working crops in my earlier years.

And I don't begrudge one of my low wage paying employers. I was really glad to get the work, and the money. And it taught me my hard work ethic which served me very well the rest of my life. Some lousy jobs in the economy need to be out there, as I said, to teach people to get better jobs. The job "cooking for the Colenol" paid half mw, so I was paid 1.60 per hour. People need to learn also, to quit jobs that suck, learn some confidence. That is probably the job that "gave me attitude", from the day I quit that job on. I was never afraid to quit another job, and I've probably quit more jobs than the board put together.

America also needs to reduce the labor laws in our country so more young people can work. I felt sorry for the kids younger by a few years as I grew up because the labor laws behind me were restricting their ability to make their own money. I think so many of our youth having so much money without any of them earning it is part of what is causing problems with the work force. Our young shouldn't grow up believing that work is 'beneath' them. It's not for everyone, but I worked in the fields harvesting crops "with the Mexicans' before the age of ten, and I was glad to get the work. Everyone I knew growing up, worked. There was no shame in working for those shit wages, they were considered "kids" jobs, not careers. And this opinion is coming from probably the most "pro-labor" member of this board.

It's for parents to decide their kids should work for next to nothing to train their kids, not business and not business to profit off of their low wages.

You could have learned the same thing in your house and backyard.

My nephews were homeschooled and did that.

My dad put me to work in his office as a janitor btw.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-caught-flat-out-lie-over-bin-laden-raid

Quote: petroglyph

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-caught-flat-out-lie-over-bin-laden-raid

I wonder if ZeroHedge writes a story every time Donny gets caught in a lie. I doubt it, probably not enough bandwidth to host all those thousands of articles.

Quote: rxwine

Also,



You need to submit evidence anyone said a janitor should make CEO pay. Just making stuff up, are you.

I was not the one to compare the two.

Neither am I among those here professing “to each based on his needs.”

Quote: AZDuffman

I was not the one to compare the two.

Neither am I among those here professing “to each based on his needs.”

I'm waiting for proof of your claim, not excuses and diversion.

Quote: rxwine

I'm waiting for proof of your claim, not excuses and diversion.

Proof of what claim?

Quote: petroglyph

America also needs to reduce the labor laws in our country so more young people can work. I felt sorry for the kids younger by a few years as I grew up because the labor laws behind me were restricting their ability to make their own money. I think so many of our youth having so much money without any of them earning it is part of what is causing problems with the work force. Our young shouldn't grow up believing that work is 'beneath' them. It's not for everyone, but I worked in the fields harvesting crops "with the Mexicans' before the age of ten, and I was glad to get the work. Everyone I knew growing up, worked. There was no shame in working for those shit wages, they were considered "kids" jobs, not careers. And this opinion is coming from probably the most "pro-labor" member of this board.

This is very true, and IMHO a root cause of much from the OWS movement to the so-called student loan crisis. When I was a kid it was made clear that if I wanted to get behind the wheel of the family car I would have to cough up the $800 it would cost in insurance. In advance, in whole. Had to buy my own cars and fund them. The kids who had this handed to them were the kids who wrecked their cars. That is just one thing.

Show me the kids who drank their way out of college and I would show you a kid who mommy and daddy paid their way.

Kids who do not work are so many steps behind. They are also probably far more likely to be unemployed longer because of "beneath them" work.

Quote: AZDuffman

Proof of what claim?

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/2761/106/#post132685